Dave [00:00:00] Today on episode 250 of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, Bonnie and I celebrate a million downloads.

Production Credit [00:00:09] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Dave [00:00:16] Welcome to this episode of Teaching in Higher Ed. I’m Dave Stachowiak and this is the space where we explore the art and science of being more effective at facilitating learning. We also share ways to improve our productivity approaches so we can have more peace in our lives and be even more present for students.

Dave [00:00:45] Hooray! You did it.

Bonni [00:00:47] Horray! I feel like we should have a noisemakers but we don’t.

Dave [00:00:53] I was going to try to make some sound. But it just not be a good experience for your listeners at all.

Bonni [00:00:59] Dave cannot roll his Rs and he also probably is not the best noisemaker impressionist that I know.

Dave [00:01:07] That is so funny. I was going to try to roll my R.

Bonni [00:01:09] No.

Dave [00:01:11] That was not going to be a good experience for anyone.

Bonni [00:01:12] No, that is not a celebration. No.

Dave [00:01:15] Well I am so excited for you. 250 episodes and it just so happened that we crossed the 1 million downloads mark just within the last week or so. Right?

Bonni [00:01:28] Yes. As of this recording so this is data as of March 15th, so it was 1 million 12 thousand 9 hundred and 71 downloads. But today’s a new day because we’re recording the day after that, so it’s probably even gone up from there. It’s amazing. I just think about all the people around the world that we’ve both been able to be connected with through both of our podcasts. What a wild ride.

Bonni [00:01:49] I was telling someone yesterday that I was interviewing because he says “Wow you and your husband really were in this before podcasting was big.” And I was like yeah we’ve asked it all the way to where it’s just ironic. Of course you have a podcast, everyone has one.

Dave [00:02:04] Yeah. It is funny. It is and I’m an incredible number. One of the great joys that I have in life Bonni, for both of us is whenever we get an email or a call from someone that says you owe us more money because you have exceeded the server load for your traffic or bandwidth as much as I don’t love to hand over more money, I am thrilled to do that because it is a wonderful problem to have for us to have so many people who have put your trust in Bonni to be of influence in your work and to inspire students. So we’re we’re so grateful and we’re going to celebrate today.

Bonni [00:02:39] One of the people that has been along for this ride, we refer to this group of people as the completionist. They are self-named. I believe that was possibly Ian Wolf who came up with that name, but forgive me if I’m wrong about who created that name. But just people who have listened to all of the episodes that are out there in the world. And Linda Oakleaf is such a special person to me. She has been just encouraging me all along the way. She she’s a real integral part of the slack channel and so she-.

Dave [00:03:08] And she’s a Cubs fan.

Bonni [00:03:10] Oh I did not remember that-.

Dave [00:03:12] You missed the most the most important thing.

Bonni [00:03:15] So she has called in to celebrate. And what I love about Linda’s message is she just is so authentic in marking this moment with us. And also as she describes the episode that meant a lot to her, I love that she describes it in such an iterative way because it’s like she’s not done with it yet in terms of the lessons that can be drawn and just that playful experimentation that we can be doing in our teaching. So here is a message from Linda Oakleaf:.

Linda Oakleaf [00:03:43] “I want to say congratulations. It’s kind of amazing to think about a million downloads. Even some small fraction of the folks who’ve been listening to your podcasts made changes to what they do. It means that you and your amazing guests have made some real impact maybe on college teaching in the United States and beyond. My one in a million episode is Episode 183 with Robin DeRosa. You all were talking about the importance of feedback that is meaningful for students. And so I thought about that a lot and actually changed some of the way that I do drafts. I had always put more effort into comments for drafts than on the final piece but I should change how I  grade. Grades or extrinsic and problematic. But they work sometimes as a motivator. So I changed it so that my final grade was entirely based on whether or not they implemented what I asked them to do. Now they can disagree with what I asked them to do and then they just had to write a paragraph that said “I didn’t make such and such an edit because I wanted to do something different in this direction.” But you could give me a B paper and then not change a single thing. And now you have an F paper. And it really meant that students really looked at what I asked them to do and it seemed to help. So that’s as one changes that I made. I’m still sort of inventing and thinking about whether or not I like the way it worked. But that’s my one in a million episode.”

Dave [00:05:00] Thank you so much Linda for sending that in. Bonni, how are you feeling as you celebrate this milestone?

Bonni [00:05:07] Oh gosh Dave, it’s been quite an emotional time this last weekend or two as the messages have come in from different people talking about their one in a million episode. And so just overwhelmed with just the transformative nature. And Linda talked about this a little, just imagine the people around the world and just the sense of solidarity with people who care so deeply about what we do and the impact we try to have. I will also say I am feeling so apprehensive. It’s really hard when you name people because I was going through the episode list as I prepared for today. I want to name something about every single episode. I mean the people have been able to meet and the ways that I’ve been transformed and also witnessed other people be transformed, I want to go through every single episode and have a little love fest around the changes that happen as I’m feeling a little afraid. It’s hard when you feel like you’re name people then you know you’re going to leave people out. And so I just wanted to say an enormous thank you to each and every person who’s been a guest. It was such an honor to speak with these people and be connected in different ways. And so I’m feeling a little fearful. I don’t know if that if that resonates at all with you Dave.

Dave [00:06:13] Yeah it does. And so much of this is a journey for all of us whether we are behind the microphone or the person who’s the guest on the episode, both of you and I have done that. And then also been the person out in the world who’s implementing this, which we’ve both done as well too. And one of the things that I found myself doing a lot when I interview people is asking them what they’ve changed their mind on. I’m curious as you’ve been down this journey now of 250 episodes, what’s something that stands out for you that you’ve changed your mind on?

Bonni [00:06:46] One of the very many episodes that have changed my mind about things is episode 81 with Stephanie Vie. And that was an episode about some of the ethical considerations around plagiarism detection systems. And I had never thought about those things before. I’m embarrassed to admit but hey that was way back in the day before we had even reached 100 episodes. So that was just one episode of many that significantly changed how I think about things.

Bonni [00:07:13] Let’s continue on Dave with people who called in with their one in a million episode and I selected Christina Moore’s recording for this one because this is certainly another episode, she kind of helped me be able to reference another episode that really changed my mind about things and so this is Christina Moore talking about her one in a million episode.

Christina Moore [00:07:35] “It’s really difficult to pick one episode. I feel like last thousand downloads have been for me. But the one episode that I think of right away often is Asao Inoue’s discussion of antiracist writing assessment ecologies. As a previous composition teacher I see how important of a message this is and how much we need to start broadening how we think of effective writing. Plus I’m reading Binti which was one of his reading recommendations and it is such a fun sci-fi read that I never would have come across otherwise.”

Dave [00:08:13] Christina, thank you so much for sharing that one episode out of the million downloads that’s been impactful for you. Bonni, it’s really fun to hear from as many of these downloads as there are. Each one of these is meaningful in its own way and so it’s really neat to get a small glimpse of some of these individual episodes that have landed with individual people and what they’ve done with it. I’m curious thinking about this journey for you too is, what has made you laugh along the way?

Bonni [00:08:40] This episode is 138 with Mike Caulfield. And first of all my, Mike Caulfield and I just continue to learn pretty much from 100 percent of his tweets and blogs and various ways that he gets the word out about digital literacy. He’s been just such a teacher to me but he also cracks me up. I love his sense of humor.

Bonni [00:09:00] And in this particular episode I had a true confession moment and I shared Dave that you and I as parents- well at the time we were not planning on telling our children that there was a tooth fairy and now our children are old enough at least one of them to have lost a tooth or two- I’m already losing track of how many teeth he has lost. And so no we do not tell them that there is a tooth fairy. And this was Mike Caulfield’s response:

Mike Caulfield [00:09:26] I don’t remember being shocked to find out my parents were the tooth fairy. I remember being shocked that my mom had kept all the teeth. They were like in a little jar. You know. So this just seemed like- this seemed like I don’t it seemed like Roman or something. Like jar of teeth. But her feeling was well it’s just seemed weird to throw them away. And it’s like well you know the Tooth Fairy thing, the fact you guys are the tooth fairy. That’s not freaking me out. No the jar of baby teeth in our cupboard though, that’s a little Dalmer. So you might might want to back off of that.

Bonni [00:10:03] It’s funny that you bring that up because of course it’s always as a parent you’re are thinking about things in advance often of when they actually happen. But this is something I didn’t even think about. What do you do with those teeth?

Mike Caulfield [00:10:12] What do you do with the teeth? Yeah. So in any case you, for folks out there whether you engage in tooth fairy-ism or not. That’s great. But like don’t keep a jar of teeth in the medicine cabinet. That’s just freaky.

Bonni [00:10:28] My parents do search and rescue with their dogs and I’m laughing because as I’m saying this to you I’m realizing what you do with them is you give them to your parents because they use them as scent articles for the dogs as they go out to find you. Yeah that’s what you do with the teeth. You know it’s really-This is another embarrassing confession then I’ll stop. For Easter many years I wouldn’t see my parents because they would be doing cadaver Easter egg hunts with the dogs. There’s a synthetic scent for dead bodies smell and they’d put it inside easter eggs and the dogs would go find them.

Mike Caulfield [00:11:00] Oh my gosh.

Bonni [00:11:02] I’m wondering if our-.

Mike Caulfield [00:11:03]  I feel like believing in the tooth fairy was not the worst of your childhood issue.

Bonni [00:11:09] Yes, perhaps.

Mike Caulfield [00:11:12] I think there is a whole other universal things to work out.

Bonni [00:11:15] Yes there’s a lot we’re unpacking on this episode.

Dave [00:11:18] So can I just say there- I went online to get our kids little things to put their tooth under their pillow at one point in the last year or so. And there’s a whole ecosystem around preserving teeth for kids. Like you can buy these little packages and kits. And I was one, horrified and secondly couldn’t stop thinking about this conversation.

Bonni [00:11:47] I also don’t think that you know this but it turned out when I talked to my mom she really did want to have our son’s tooth to use for that particular purpose. This is still a helpful thing for them as a search and rescue organization. And I wrapped it-.

Dave [00:12:02] I left on the shelf in your closet, remember?

Bonni [00:12:04] But now I’ve lost it. I do not know where it is. And I’m just picturing the horror of if it gets into the wrong hands of like why is there a tooth in whatever this is?

Dave [00:12:18] We need to bring one of their search dogs up in our closet. They’ll find it. Two minutes. Done.

Bonni [00:12:24] I also by the way laugh any time Todd Zakrajsek is on the episode but often our funniest remarks get edited out most likely because we asked Andrew our podcast editor to take them out because we don’t want to get ourselves into too much trouble because we just get in the middle of some kind of a riff and you go places you’re just not expecting. He has a delightful sense of humor as well.

Dave [00:12:45] What’s an episode that you’ve learned a lot from? Since so much of this is about learning.

Bonni [00:12:50] Chris Gilliard was on episode 130 and spoke about digital redlining. And in a way that provided such a foundation for me. I had read some of his articles. But just getting to speak with him one on one was a tremendous learning experience and then also just having- It’s interesting how when you come across a person you’re able to go then and discover other people who are also researching and interested in those same subjects. And so I learned so much from him and of course from so many others as well.

Dave [00:13:24] How about- and I think I know what you’ll probably say- embarrassing moment for the podcast over the last 250 episodes?

Bonni [00:13:32] When I had the privilege of getting to interview Ken Bain. I actually got to interview him now twice, but the first time for episode 36 I was so nervous and he wasn’t necessarily nervous, at least I didn’t perceive that. But it was the first time he’d ever done a podcast. And so after we were done recording he said “gosh there were things I really wish I could have said and I forgot some things.” So I said “that’s the magic of podcasting, I can just press record and off we go.” And before I got to press record, he just started talking and he’s naming these names I’m not familiar with and he’s talking about Eric Mazur, I didn’t know who that was, and the Minerva prize. I’m typing as fast as my little typing fingers will let me go and then I explained to him that I was going to press record again and that that would be able to get spliced into the interview. And so off we went and I said “tell me about the manure prize.” And he let me get three times out the word “manure” before he politely said Bonni, it’s actually the manure prize-.

Dave [00:14:36] The Minerva prize.

Bonni [00:14:37] Yes. Oh no. I’m doing it again! The Minerva prize. And so yes it was so embarrassing and I did think about having that part of the audio just not make its way on to the actual episode. But I’m glad I left it in because I think it’s important for us to model that it is often those mistakes that actually we learn the most from. I guarantee you don’t get Minerva prize and I certainly do remember Eric Minerva’s name. It’s locked and loaded in my memory for all of time and so it’s just been delightful. And we actually celebrated on episode 100, people called in and spoke about their own failures, their own mistakes that they had made. And Maha Bali ended up being the receiving the manure award for it and I didn’t end up pulling it back any time since then but you know I can always pull it back because there’s always things we can be celebrating about what we’re learning from our failures.

Bonni [00:15:29] Another person who called in to share their one in a million episode is Ian Wolf and as I mentioned earlier Ian Wolf is also a completionist, he has listened to all of the episodes of Teaching in Higher Ed. And here he is sharing about an episode that had a profound impact and also has to do with making mistakes so that’s why he placed it here.

Ian Wolf [00:15:51] Hi there Drs. Stachowiak. I’ve got to say my episode one in a million was number 112, A Radical Hope: A Teaching Manifesto with Dr. Kevin Gannon. He’s my spirit animal. I lack his courage to call them like I see them, but I’ve definitely been trying to utilize that more. I’ve also been encouraging the new faculty that we’ve been hiring to do the same. We just hired several new fresh graduates. They have their very first teaching gig and they are so green and so nervous, they are mistepping and it’s all perfectly summed up in Dr. Gannon’s quote from the episode “if I want my students to take risks and not be afraid to fail then I need to take risks and not be afraid to fail.” That in and of itself is something that I think we’re all trying to do where we all teach and I value that lesson and I’m trying to carry it more, I’m trying to impart it into my students. Additionally, Dr. Gannon’s phrase about punching up which is something he mentioned in an earlier episode. All of those things: speak your truth, punch up, take risks. It’s all ways to empower folks rather than hiding behind that whole fear of failure.

Bonni [00:17:12] One of the things that Kevin Gannon has stressed the entire time I’ve known him is about students not being our adversaries. This is something that Jesse Stommel and Sean Michael Morris also speak a lot about, Robin Deros, I could go on and on. And it’s such a subtle but absolutely transformative way that you can change your paradigm. And Dave, I’ll admit I can remember times early in my teaching when that was not what was being modeled for me and that was not how I was perceiving students and I’m so grateful for the joy that I experience now in recognizing that they are indeed not, they are just these incredible people we have such a privilege to be able to walk alongside. I’m grateful for Kevin Gannon and others leadership in that area. It’s so critical.

Dave [00:17:58] Yeah, you and me both. That has changed a lot of my thinking on teaching over the years as listening to people like Kevin. And speaking of change, your role has changed in the last couple of years at your university and you are doing more faculty development work now and yet you continue to teach. You teach at the undergrad level and at the doctoral level. And I know a lot of the conversations that come up on the show you inspire your own practice. What’s changed in your own approach to learning during this journey of this podcast?

Bonni [00:18:29] I’m going to say everything but since I should probably be specific, one episode that comes so clearly to my mind is one with Peter Newbury. It’s episode 53. And this is a 7 second clip, Dave. And it’s seven seconds of the show that is something that’s just a part of my everyday life. And here is Peter Newbury. In specifics, he’s talking about Twitter. How do you get the most benefit out of Twitter? But he says and the episode and of course I completely concur, this is about all of life how to get the richest learning out of all of our life. Here’s Peter Newbury:

Peter Newbury [00:19:11] We need people like us and people not like us. And we need access to them lots of the time.

Bonni [00:19:18] In terms of my Twitter usage and building professional and personal learning network, whenever I find a new group of people that I think can contribute in some way to my own learning. I just get this idea in mind of finding these people that are so different from me and how they can really ignite my own imagination for the context that I’m really missing out on. And then also finding people I have a lot in common with and just that sense of solidarity and how we’re working together to do this better. So appreciative of Peter Newbury and all the impact that he’s had on my teaching and leadership.

Bonni [00:19:53] The next person who shared her one in a million episodes is Erin Whitteck. And we’re going to quickly follow it up with a message from Isabeau Iqbal because they both have the same episode and the same person who also has just been a big part of my teaching as well and we’ve even established a friendship.

Erin Whitteck [00:20:14] Hello my name is Erin Whitteck and I’m a faculty member that teaches organic chemistry. The episode that had the most profound impact on me was Pooja Agarwal, episode 94 where she talked about retrieval practice. It was the first time I really learned about the science behind learning and not just the science but also the practice. So how we actually model and implement the science of learning in our own classrooms. It really kind of spurred me on to learn more about the science of learning. It has profoundly changed the way that I teach. I now model and teach affective learning practices in the classroom on a regular basis and I’ve become so passionate about it and its impact that I really want to have a broader impact. So I feel like this episode kind of started my path along a career change for me and now I am entering into a position where I’m going to be doing faculty development. So I really want to say thank you so much for your podcast and your continued efforts in improving higher education. And thanks for opening this door for me and congratulations on 250 episodes.

Bonni [00:21:37] It was so fun to hear your voice Erin because I know we’ve corresponded but that was just a treasure for me to get to hear that. And also so happy to hear from you Isabeau with a spotlight on the same individual.

Isabeau Iqbal [00:21:51] Hi Bonni, it’s Isabeau. In terms of impacting my teaching, the episode that has had the most impact is the one by Pooja Agarwal on retrieval practice. It just really nailed the message home to me in that very powerful way. So congratulations again Bonni. I’m just so pleased for you. And thank you, thank you, thank you.

Dave [00:22:17] Bonni, as you’ve been on this journey, what’s made you cry?

Bonni [00:22:21] I will never forget episode 165 where you and I spoke about course evaluations. It actually came about because something fell through the cracks and we don’t always share these behind the scenes secrets. But it was “well I’ve aired an episode every single week since June of 2014. Dave, we’ve got to pull something together here.” So it was just a kind of a spur of the moment thing to fill in a gap when one occurred. And I was trying to really make it more of a practical thing. What’s the process I use for reflecting on my course evaluations. But we actually went through and reflected on my course evaluations and when I was reading about a student being disappointed that I hadn’t made it to his or her poster session thing and not realizing that there wasn’t any way I could spread myself to all the business professionals we had an alumni and campus leaders coming by- I’d had a student who was going around doing Facebook Live and I just was so sad I remember that the student didn’t realize I watched every single minute, every second of that Facebook live recording. And really celebrated their learning it was so tremendously just an exciting thing for me to see. And then I was just disappointed that I hadn’t really translated that over to them and they felt like- they didn’t say this but like that I didn’t care. And that was really hard. And what was so rewarding was just, that was another part where I thought oh can we just take that out? Because I don’t like getting emotional like that for thousands of people. But of course I mean I leave it in. It’s like I want to take it out. But that’s that’s the power of it.

Bonni [00:23:57] And then just so many of you poured out your hearts to me and told me about your pain from course evaluations and just how me being vulnerable like that helped do be able to process it a little bit better and just to recognize that this teaching stuff is hard and reflective work to try to get better at that continuously is also incredibly hard. So it did end up bringing me a lot of joy.

Bonni [00:24:22] The next person who shared a message about his one in a million episode is Josh Ryler and Josh Eyler has also been another one of those people who’s been around from almost the very beginning down in the less than 20 episodes range of things. And he’s been back a number of times. I still think so fondly of the episode we did on the lessons about teaching that Pixar movies have in them. That’s a really fun episode for me. And then getting to talk to him about his book on how humans learn and to think about the journey that that was for him in the book coming out it was just a fun thing to get to celebrate for him and also to get to learn from him. And Josh is going to share about his one in a million episode.

Josh Eyler [00:25:04] Hi Bonni, it’s Josh Eyler and I just want to say that my one in a million episode is a recent episode I’m teaching with compassion with Peter Kaufman. That episode still has such hope and humanity. And I left it feeling inspired and with the intention of learning from Peter’s life an example as a teacher and a human being. So I appreciate that episode very much and have returned to that time and time again since I first listened to it. Thanks for all you do Bonni.

Bonni [00:25:38] I remember being on Twitter and Dave you came into the room and you left the room at one moment and you came back and I was just bawling. And you said-.

Dave [00:25:50] I remember that.

Bonni [00:25:51] And you said “I just left the room for a second, what happened?” And I said, “I just came across this person and I’m just enthralled with his life and his work.” And Peter had written a book about him teaching with compassion. And I knew I wanted to have him on the show and I knew that it was going to be incredibly difficult for him. I mean yes for me but for him as well. He had been diagnosed with terminal cancer and it was one of those conversations, how do you do this? We had just a wonderful correspondence. He did want to come on the show and he did want to share. And I was concerned a little bit. I mean he had written so much about his illness and some wonderful post to writing that he did during that season or on that episodes show notes page. And he came on and what a wonderful man.

[00:26:43] What a gifted teacher. And every time I think about him I just get so sad that he’s not longer no longer with us. And yet there is as Josh said those just infusions of hope that he brought to us. He left that behind as a gift for all of us. And I also was reflecting back to the first episode that was ever recorded without it being just Dave and I. And Dave, there’s actually been people who decide to start listening to the podcast from the very beginning. And they think it’s just you and I for all 200 and something episodes. They are like “oh I didn’t realize there are other people.”

Bonni [00:27:20] So there was the episode about personal knowledge management and two librarians joined us Crystal Renfro, who still writes for the academic personal knowledge management blog which I linked to in the show notes, and then her dear friend Mary Axford. And sadly Mary Axford passed away a couple of years as well. And I just think back to these people that I’ve been able to be connected with and capture in audio just some of the learnings that they have to offer. It’s just tiny grains of sand, but those tiny grains of sand are treasures to me just to get to be a little holder of their legacy. And oh boy. Just the world misses these two people and it’s sad. Yet it also is restorative in being able to go back to those grains of sand so I’m grateful to Mary. I remember her and I’m grateful to Peter I remember and miss him as well. And I’m just- this is just. It’s life. It’s life and I’m glad to be in it but boy sometimes it’s hard.

Dave [00:28:24] What’s a favorite moment from a past episode?

Bonni [00:28:28] Clint Smith the third who I believe I first came across his TED talk. He is hard to describe because he has so many things, he’s a spoken word poet, he’s a teacher, he’s aPh.D. student at Harvard. And since coming on the podcast, he is a big time podcaster now in his own right on the Pod Save the People podcast I love the way that they do the news and cover it from such unique perspectives. And I really love that podcast that he’s on now.

Bonni [00:28:56] So he came onto the podcast and did share from his book of poetry. And I was a little nervous to ask him about the poem but he does explain it in the episode and I was so grateful for that little bit of background which brought such depth. And so many of you wrote to me and said just how powerful this poem was for you and how grateful you were to have him read it. So Dave and I going to share Clint Smith sharing his poetry.

Clint Smith [00:30:08] Reads his poem called What the Cicada Said to the Brown Boy. Ends with: “Get you some wings, son. Get you some wings.”

Dave [00:30:15] There’s been so many wonderful relationships that have been built over the years from this show. And you’ve had a number of people who have come on multiple times to continue that journey and I’m curious who’s been a repeat guest who’s had a profound impact on your teaching?

Bonni [00:30:35] I’d like to start by saying every repeat guest has had a profound impact on my teaching. One who I’ve been able to read many books from, he has written over 30 books about teaching in his career and who I had the opportunity to meet in person once, he actually sat in a session that my colleague and I gave. And Stephen Brookfield thank you for everything you’ve done. He’s just- his books. The times he’s been on the episode he’s talked about teaching. He’s talked about critical pedagogy. He’s talked about race and done it in a way from speaking from a place of privilege. And oh gosh I could go on and on. I’m just grateful that his first time he came on was episode 15. I never forget that number because that’s always been one of the top downloads. Any any time he comes on, he definitely gets a lot of downloads. And that’s not what it’s about for me. But I can see why so many people find him to have such an impact on their teaching and I include myself in that and I’m grateful to have had many conversations with him that I’ve been able to.

Dave [00:31:37] Who has had an impact maybe beyond simply the scope of teaching but just an impact on your life?

Bonni [00:31:43] Very similarly to Stephen Brookfield, James Lang has been on the podcast many times. He’s also written many books. They are books that I pick up time and time and time again. The first book I ever read of James Lang’s was Cheating Lessons and I instantly wanted to talk to him. He was on episode 19 and that’s another episode number, I don’t even have it in the show notes Dave as we’re talking about this is because that one is locked in my head as well. But it isn’t just about my teaching. He’s had a huge impact on that. I consider him now a friend and a mentor and someone who when I get stuck, I don’t do this often because I don’t want to take advantage of it and I know how busy he is. But there’s been a couple of times where, you mentioned my career changing Dave and going into faculty development, and when I just can’t resist it because I’m not sure where to head or what to do, I’ll jot him a quick note. He’s just so kind and generous and has always written back and that I’m just so appreciative. He’s helped me to discover possibilities for myself that I didn’t ever even consider would be something I could do. And just in terms of even small ways of connecting me with people. I think back to getting to talk to him for Episode 19 but it just kept going from there. Oh you should talk to this person and just became this web of people that if- I did like to do a map of that Dave, you know how they have those maps that show how things are related? Usually with social media. You know this person is connected and there’s these sort of nodes. He would be a huge node on my map of who he has connected me with. And that’s just been- Oh. I’m just so grateful for that.

Bonni [00:33:19] And then he did write the most touching article in The Chronicle that anyone’s ever written about the podcast. And it just still to me just really represents what this mission has been. And he helped me in terms of being an author and his books helped me. I could just have an episode 2, 3, 14, 40 just on James Lang. Thank you James Lang for everything that you’ve done for me.

Bonni [00:33:47] Another person I’m grateful to be connected with for the podcast is Jeff Young. And Jeff Young I first met when he worked for the Chronicle and now he’s at EdSurge. And Jeff Young called in to share his one in a million episode. And I’m grateful for this because his person that he mentions is also definitely I couldn’t do a one in a million episode. But he is a person who’s also had a huge impact on my teaching as well. This is Jeff Young.

Jeff Young [00:34:14] Hi I’m Jeff Young. I have to say I’m definitely a fan of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast. And one episode that really struck me was the one with Jesse Stommel about how to un-grade. I remember I actually heard it riding my bike to go teach a journalism class I do as an adjunct and I remember it was talking about grading and how big a role this can play in the student mind, how they can loom. But how people don’t really talk much about grading even those people talking about reforming higher ed, which I talk to a lot for me for my reporting. And I think I’m always drawn to these situations where people are trying to take a broader perspective on what it is they’re doing it and kind of thinking how these docs fit together. And this episode really did that. And sometimes even in a playful way, I remember there’s something where he talks about that he imagines a Darth Vader theme song in star wars going every time people start to think about or talk about grades because these letters,  the ABC and whatever can really stress students and maybe these grades don’t achieve what people think they do. And anyway, looking forward to more podcasts like this one. Thanks so much for doing the show.

Bonni [00:35:20] In the last six months I’ve started writing a column for EdSurge, it is an advice column for people who want to ask and receive answers about teaching. And Jeff Young as my editor and I’ve learned so much from him through that process and also through his podcast on EdSurge and so what a nice synergistic connection another person I feel so connected with.

Bonni [00:35:40] And he mentions about Jesse Stommel and that’s another one of those when I think about that network because it brings in Sean Michael Morris, Robin De Rosa, and so many others that I won’t even have time to list here but just how fun to be connected with those that are engaged in the Hybrid Pedagogy team, with their podcasts, with their events, with their journal, it’s just magnificent to know them.

Dave [00:36:06] What’s an episode that continues to inspire you?

Bonni [00:36:09] Episode number 215 with Bryan Dewsbury was particularly impactful to me in terms of thinking about teaching STEM with a lens of social justice. For those of you who teach in STEM, this may just be as natural as could be. I think about Karen [00:36:25]cantaloupes. [0.0s] This is something that just seems to just be a part of her being. But for me I never had teachers like that and I didn’t grow up with just that sense of the connection between the sciences and our sense of mission and purpose. And we recently actually had on I was tempted to do this one as well but I felt like it would be too much the recency effect. But the group talking about the Solar Suitcases and how they’re teaching the students to make these things and go out and help in different communities, that’s just- there’s nothing better. And if whatever discipline we teach in we’re unable to see how that connects with social justice, we’re holding ourselves back from being able to impact the minds of today and tomorrow. Grateful for Bryan Dewsbury and I’m really just grateful- I feel like everyone who’s ever come on the podcast has inspired me in that way and it’s just a delight.

Dave [00:37:19] It wouldn’t be an episode of Teaching in Higher Ed if we didn’t end with some recommendations. So what are you thinking about right now Bonni, in the context of all these episodes that you’d like to recommend?

Bonni [00:37:29] Earlier in the episode I mentioned Crystal Renfro and she is the librarian who I was talking about came on to the first episode that wasn’t just Dave and I. And I wanted to recommend her Academic PKM blog, she did decide to keep going with it even after Mary’s passing. They had written together for so many years. And one of my favorite parts about the blog are the link roundups. They are so much fun because they’re kind of this eclectic collection of things just like the recommendations segment. And one of the things she recommended recently on a links roundup was Noisli. And it is a white noise maker and you can click on it if you’re trying to do it to relax or to be productive and then there’s different things that you can click on to generate different types of white noise whether it’s birds, or rain, or waterfalls. And that’s a great one. That’s a really really great one. So I’d suggest that you go check out Academic PKM, subscribe to it so you get all those great link roundups and specifically Soisli.

Bonni [00:38:31] And Dave, what do you have to recommend today?

Dave [00:38:34] I have two recommendations. One of them I was just thinking about a reference to Twitter earlier in the conversation. We didn’t hear from everyone of course and I think there’s probably more folks out there who have had that one in a million moment or maybe moments from the show. And I would just make the invitation that if you have heard something on the show in the last few years that’s been helpful or useful to you in some way I think could be wonderful for folks to reach out to you on Twitter Bonni and let you know as this episode airs and your Twitter ID is @Bonni208. .

Dave [00:39:11] The other thing that that’s getting me thinking of is my second recommendation which is Episode 208. There’s the real- not sure if danger is the right word- but I think there’s the sometimes we hear something in isolation like this episode of a lot of successes and a lot of learning and a lot of relationships that have been built. And I think there’s a tendency for all of us to zero in on that and we see all these wonderful successes and these great stories and forget that there’s always challenge along the road in the journeys too. I love what you did on episode 208- I can’t remember if that was the last time we did an episode together or I think maybe it was.

Bonni [00:39:45] It might be.

Dave [00:39:45] I love what you did with that episode and we did have having a conversation about your career journey and some of the highlights but also some of the struggles along the way. And for those who are at that place as we all are in our careers and we all will be again I’m sure, I know I go through these times too, of difficulty and of fear and of feeling like we don’t know what’s next, Episode 208 I think is a a wonderful place to start. So if you’re just listening for the first time or just started listening recently I’d really invite you to go back to that episode because there are so many wonderful things there.

Dave [00:40:24] Thank you so much for listening. And if you’re just joining recently we hope you’ll engage with us also on the website to get an article from Bonni every week and also the show notes for every episode. Just go to teachinginhighered.com/subscribe.

Bonni [00:40:41] Dave, I really really want to take this time also to say thank you to you. You are my best friend, my partner. I’m so glad we’re in this life together. And I’m also glad that you’ve nudged me into this podcast. This is either all your fault or all to your credit.

Dave [00:40:56] It has been so much fun. Thank you so much for the privilege to be a tiny part. It’s a joy. I listen to every- I’m a completionist too actually. I’ve listened every episode and I’ve learned something in my own work every time. Thank you.

Bonni [00:41:12] We’ll see you next time everyone. Episode 251, we’re just going to keep on going.

Dave [00:41:16] There we go. See you then.

Teaching in Higher Ed transcripts are created using a combination of an automated transcription service and human beings. This text likely will not represent the precise, word-for-word conversation that was had. The accuracy of the transcripts will vary. The authoritative record of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcasts is contained in the audio file.