Bonni: [00:00:00] Today on episode number 180 the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast Katie Linder and I talk about returning to the role of student.

Production Credit: [00:00:10] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Bonni: [00:00:19] Welcome to this episode of Teaching in Higher Ed. I’m Bonni Stachowiak and this is the space where we explore the art and science of being more effective at facilitating learning. We also share ways to improve our personal productivity so we can have more peace in our lives and be even more present for our students.

Bonni: [00:00:46] Today I get to welcome back to the show someone who today is a friend and a collaborator. Dr. Katie Linder is an avid writer and researcher with a passion for a process and peeking behind the scenes at what it takes to be a successful academic. She currently hosts two weekly solo podcasts, You’ve Got this and The Anatomy of a Book. I’m a huge fan of both and a weekly interview podcast called Research in Action. And she also writes weekly essays.

Bonni: [00:01:17] Her most recent book is The Blended Course Design Workbook: A Practical Guide. Although I’ll be candid with you she is a prolific writer so by the time you listen to this who knows maybe another more current book out knowing her. Katie is also the Director of the Oregon State University Campus Research Unit and an Associate Editor for the International Journal for Academic Development. Katie, welcome back to Teaching in Higher Ed.

Katie: [00:01:44] Bonni I always love talking with you. Thanks for having me back on the show.

Bonni: [00:01:48] It’s funny because we have had ever since you came on the show we just became friends and we’ve seen each other in person and we’ve had a chance to talk multiple times outside of podcasting land so it’s just been really fun to get to know you. And today I’m excited about the conversation just about returning to being a student.

Bonni: [00:02:05] I know you and I are really lifelong learners but we’ve both had some experiences lately that are maybe a little bit different in terms of just professional development so why don’t you talk a little bit first about the kinds of things that you’ve been doing. To return you back to a student role lately.

Katie: [00:02:21] Sure. So this is something I talked a little bit about my typecast as well. So if we have any cross listeners they will know it was you’ve got this that I have recently pursued coaching training. I’ve been doing coaching for quite some time in my faculty development background but had no credential.

Katie: [00:02:38] And so I have gone back into the classroom to explore what it means to be kind of officially credentialed as a coach but also as I’ve been growing my small business. I’ve been investing in some online courses and just various different kinds of things that are allowing me to really learn from people who know these areas more than I do.

Katie: [00:02:57] So I’m definitely back in the role of a student and it’s been a super interesting and fun. I know you’ve been doing the same thing. What are some of the ways you’ve been doing this.

Bonni: [00:03:05] Well one of the ways is just through and I have talked about this on the show and through blogging but I have been attending a lot of conferences. So there were conferences that were here locally that I just didn’t want to miss while they were here. You know as far back as we went to the podcast a movement conference together here in Anaheim.

Bonni: [00:03:23] And then there was the Open Ed conference which was also here and the Digital Media and Learning Conference. And then I also was honored to be able to be a keynote of a couple of other conferences and had a chance to sit in sessions there and get to hear such innovative things that people are doing.

Bonni: [00:03:39] Conferences of course are a little bit different than what you and I have been doing though because there are at least some of what we’ve been doing is not Norm not in higher ed and it’s not a traditional way that we might see ourselves be exposed to learning opportunities.

Bonni: [00:03:53] So one thing that I have done which I’m not done yet one that I’m halfway through is a Creative Live online course and this is by my podcasting hero one of one of a few. His name is Alex Bloomberg and he has a wonderful storytelling course that is on the Creative Live platform.

Bonni: [00:04:14] And oh my gosh I’ve just been so enjoying getting to see someone who tells such beautiful stories through the podcasting medium and then just get to see some of the behind the scenes. I’ve been like a kid in a candy store with that one.

Bonni: [00:04:26] And then there also is a zoom class. Many people have been listening for a while you might remember that I really like an online conferencing tool called Zoom. And this guy put together a zoom class and I find zoom so easy to use that I hadn’t really thought about that I needed a class on it necessarily.

Bonni: [00:04:46] But it’s one of those things until you take a class you don’t realize what you didn’t know. So it’s really easy to get started using zoom. But there’s all these amazing things you can do to automate some of the workflow in it.

Bonni: [00:04:58] And then even I have not taken this module yet but even have a green screen behind you and put any background you want I mean there’s all these features I wasn’t even aware were in this tool that I’m excited about learning more on.

Katie: [00:05:10] So I’m so glad you brought a zoom and it’s like broad capacities because this is actually the platform that my coaching training is and. And one of the things I didn’t know about Zoom is that you can create breakout rooms and you can send people in to breakout rooms I only really used them as kind of like us very similar to a Skype platform and didn’t know that it had that capacity until I was in it.

Katie: [00:05:31] And I mean it just makes me think of all the different tools that are out there or these kinds of online learning experiences. And of course my full time job is all about online teaching and learning and researching in that area.

Katie: [00:05:44] But we just don’t know the capacity until sometimes we experience these tools from a student perspective and then it gives us like a whole different mindset about how they could be used in our own classroom. So I just like I’m so glad you raised that that we can look at we can become a student to become a better teacher.

Bonni: [00:06:00] One of the things I know that this whole process has made you start thinking about is who are you as a learner and could you talk a little bit about some of the observations you’ve had about you as a learner.

Katie: [00:06:14] Yeah well I mean I mean I would encourage like your listeners to think about when was the last time you were in a classroom and I’m sure there are some people who are listening to this show who are grad students in the classroom who are still kind of in that mode.

Katie: [00:06:25] For I had been ten years removed from being a grad student and actually taking classes and going through these different experiences I’m doing some late video courses and also some courses that came with audio and like workbooks style things.

Katie: [00:06:40] It really did allow me to kind of go back and think about what are my preferences like how do I like to learn and what are the different ways that I can set up learning experiences for myself to really make sure I’m going to be successful.

Katie: [00:06:54] And it’s also helped me to think a lot about how I help other people learn and how I can give them lots of different possibilities of how to experience content that I produce because people like to learn in different ways.

Katie: [00:07:06] So I mean that’s it’s really got me thinking a lot about that and also about and I know we certainly talked about this but we’re like how do we hold ourselves accountable. How do we schedule these things and how do we create structures for ourselves around learning.

Katie: [00:07:20] We know that the brain works with you know structures and chunking information and you know all that kind of thing. And when we turn the tables on ourselves and we become learners again it’s just front and center like how much we need the packaged formation to make sure we can really understand it in the ways that we want to. But I’m really curious what are you learning about yourself as a learner.

Bonni: [00:07:41] Well it cracks me up because to your last point what I’m learning about myself as a learner is I need a little more structure.

Bonni: [00:07:48] There have been a number of courses in fact I just remember that my husband recently invested I mean it was something like twenty nine dollars. But there’s a text based software that we use called Ulysses and I use it for all the show notes.

Bonni: [00:08:03] And I actually started to do a lot of blog writing. It’s a great tool. And just like with the zoom course when you buy a course on a tool that you rely on a lot you discover a lot that it can do you didn’t realize.

Bonni: [00:08:15] But both of those courses have in common that there’s no start date and there’s no end date and there’s no room. Actually the Zoom class he does periodically e-mail me you have completed zero percent of your costs which is actually not true because I’ve just skipped around a lot.

Bonni: [00:08:31] So I must not be triggering something to show that I finished one of the modules even though I watched a good portion of it. I just I’ve been dancing around in there. There’s no sense of urgency which I think is OK but what I’m realizing is I I at the very bare minimum should have within my task management system it’s got all my projects in it.

Bonni: [00:08:52] I track my goals I have my next actions but what I don’t have is one place where I could go that has these different courses in it even if I decide it’s not going to be a huge deal if I don’t do anything about that Zoom clsas until March of next year.

Bonni: [00:09:07] You know I teach on Zoom a couple of times a year. I feel like I can get enough out of it. But I don’t need it. But I’m not really able to look holistically at all the possibilities of ways in which I could advance my knowledge in these different areas.

Bonni: [00:09:22] I would have to go to a whole bunch of different places to see what’s there and to hold myself more accountable and then also just thinking as course designers. I think I would want courses that I designed to have a little bit more.

Bonni: [00:09:38] Whether that’s a sense of community where you feel like other people are moving through it with you and you can exchange ideas or at the very least just something that moved learners along. So I think that you have a better method than I do right now for how you’re holding yourself accountable and building that structure.

Katie: [00:09:54] Well I’m trying similar to what you said. I am trying to group things into one place so I at least know what is on the menu. Like you said and I did set a goal for myself this year to go through one of the courses I had purchased similar to what you were saying about a particular product.

Katie: [00:10:09] It’s of course on MailChimp which is kind of a newsletter platform that I use and email platform. And like you have already described there were so many features I just didn’t know. So I wanted to work my way through that in a diligent way and I did my annual goals list of what I wanted to do this year and have been slowly working my way through that.

Katie: [00:10:28] But I think that part of it is you know I’ve been thinking a lot about what does it mean to have a personal professional development plan almost like a syllabus where you create for yourself whether it’s in a quarter you know part of a term like when you’re teaching your classes for your students you create your own syllabus for yourself but what are the reading things that are you know what what kind of readings you have on the syllabus what kind of videos are you wanting to watch.

Katie: [00:10:53] We collect all this stuff and I think like you said it’s okay to kind of bookmark it and set it aside until we have more time. But we do have to eventually kind of structure it for ourselves and frame it in a way that actually makes sense.

Katie: [00:11:05] So this idea of creating my own syllabus for my professional development and creating use around like what I want to you know totally geeking out about it basically. I mean like I’m all about that. I’m totally ready to dive in and do that. So that’s something I’m thinking about for 2008. I think it could be really fun.

Bonni: [00:11:22] I was thinking about a recent guest Remi Kalir talked about the marginal syllabus and that’s the social annotation around those who are marginalized and it sounded so good.

Bonni: [00:11:35] And then there’s also Brian Alexander does this amazing book club and he pulls out titles that are often on my list of books I wanted to read anyway and some really brilliant people engage in that community so I’d love to have this one place like you said a syllabus for myself and then that just helps us prioritize.

Bonni: [00:11:55] No this is too much based on the timing of everything else we’ve got to pull back but we’re being more purposeful and more holistic as we’re making those plans for ourself that really seems like a good a really good way of handling it.

Katie: [00:12:07] So I’m really curious Bonni how you deal with going from his face of being an expert when you’re in front of your students to being a student yourself and kind of the vulnerability of that and putting yourself back into that spot of not knowing things. How has that been for you.

Bonni: [00:12:24] I think that one of the ways that this is easier for me now is through having done this podcast. I have had to be really vulnerable in fact I was mentioned in the episode where three made clear and I mispronounced a Nobel Prize winner three times on that episode.

Bonni: [00:12:40] And our podcast editor Andrew is like sorry there’s nothing I can do in the editing magic to take this out but I don’t think it’s a big deal but I would regularly have were no. I’m not perfect I’m going to mispronounce people’s names and I’m going to get things wrong. But ultimately I think it just makes me better.

Bonni: [00:13:00] Because many people have said they appreciate my vulnerability on the show. You can’t you know Katie you can’t do things like this and not be vulnerable and show that you indeed are not perfect.

Bonni: [00:13:13] And I think that’s made me better more more able to just take a more playful approach with it when I don’t know and I do get really intrigued with how people teach and how they invite us in to welcome us to be vulnerable and place ourselves in the learner and that may also get really intrigued by sequencing.

Bonni: [00:13:30] And like I was mentioning skipping around on the Zoom class that was really important to me because you mentioned the breakout rooms already know how to do that part but I didn’t know about this green screen thing so just enabling learners to people to be more self directed depending on what the type of courses it just gets me thinking about that kind of thing.

Bonni: [00:13:49] So I guess I guess I have been a little bit more indoctrinated about not knowing and being more comfortable with that and almost enjoying the process because I know it’s going to make me ultimately be a better teacher. I get fascinated by it.

Katie: [00:14:08] Love that.

Bonni: [00:14:09] Yeah but there are some certainly some areas where I still find myself saying oh I’m not good at that and then that’s that’s you know I’m not good at.

Bonni: [00:14:20] I don’t have good spatial intelligence you’ll hear me say that a lot. Oh I’m not just not good at spatial intelligence and then staying away from all things that might expand my own mind about what I actually am capable of doing in a particular area like that so I do find myself sometimes shutting down too. No I don’t want to quite go that far. How about you do you find yourself feeling vulnerable in these new learning experiences you’re having.

Katie: [00:14:43] You know I have always been a person kind of like you’re saying who is not afraid to just say I don’t know or I don’t know what that means. You know like can you help me figure that out. And I think especially like when I’ve been in situations where someone uses an acronym and everyone else seems to know what it is and I’m like I don’t know. That means I’ll just come out and say it.

Katie: [00:14:59] However I will say that especially in this coaching training that mean where we’re practicing different coaching methods every week in this sacredness business environment we’re all in Zoom’s the other kind of coaching each other to practice these different methods. And we’re being graded on some of these assignments by master coaches who are treating us.

Katie: [00:15:20] And it’s not necessarily the learning that makes people learn our role but it is definitely the rating that makes putting myself back in that position of having to demonstrate mastery over something.

Katie: [00:15:32] And I think we’re doing it actually a lot in our professional lives to think about things like publishing like getting a publishing contract is a form of credentialing and getting mastery in those kinds of things. But it’s not like the feeling you get when you are being graded.

Katie: [00:15:45] And I think that for many of us grades were the thing when we went through school. I mean it was like all we were focused on and that’s what allowed us to get to where we are now with our Ph.D. and hand it all back. So that is a vulnerable space for me to be back in mode to avoid having a rubric being applied to my work.

Katie: [00:16:05] And that is a huge lesson for me in terms of just like what does it mean for students that they are going through this all the time and we treat it you know grading is something I we kind of dread and we’re like not super into it and it’s such a powerful thing for our students and how they’re interacting with us. And so yeah I’ve been thinking about that quite a bit.

Bonni: [00:16:25] I’ve been sitting here trying not to laugh the entire time you’re talking because I think you just hit on that thing for me.

Bonni: [00:16:32] I was realizing that I recently went and did the we have to I don’t know if it’s every two years or every year we have to take the sexual harassment prevention and then the FERPA basics and that it’s about a three hour deal when all is said and done.

Bonni: [00:16:47] And if I get one question wrong I’m like oh my gosh look even though passing I think might be something like 80 percent. I have no. It’s not like I’m not going to pass but I start thinking oh my gosh they’re going to see that.

Bonni: [00:17:01] And then what if they think that I don’t really know this stuff and my background is partially in human resources so I really should know this stuff I hadn’t really thought about that distinction of being graded and that I really have not been the closest that I have done is you.

Bonni: [00:17:17] And I know of course me writing a book and you working on this book series that that getting feedback from people and having it reviewed but even that’s not the same thing because I get feedback often on all types of work that I do. But that whole being graded it really does seem distinct from the rest of what we’re talking about.

Katie: [00:17:36] Well I think it has an evaluative aspect to it. Like when you’re assigned a number you know like that’s a very different thing than having someone say Oh will you could you consider this thing about your writing or what about this or what about that kind of offering you different options.

Katie: [00:17:51] I think as a writer when you get feedback you’re still in the driver’s seat about you know what you have control over that and especially when you’re working with an editor and you and I have this relationship where I’m editing the series that you’re ready for.

Katie: [00:18:04] We have a relationship of trust where we’re both trying to create a product that is going to be good for the reader. We’re both kind of moving in the same direction whereas I think sometimes with grades and evaluation you think it’s more of an adversarial relationship where someone is keeping you from getting the thing that you want whether it’s a good grade or a credential or passing you know a particular.

Katie: [00:18:26] And it doesn’t always feel like a partnership. Even though from a teaching perspective we probably think about it that way quite a bit. But I wonder sometimes what our students are thinking and they are really kind of pushing back because maybe it doesn’t feel that way.

Bonni: [00:18:39] I’ve talked on recent shows about this open textbook project that my doctoral students are going through and until you just said that Katie hadn’t really considered this but they know that this is my first time writing a open textbook with students and that that I don’t feel like it’s at all negated my credibility because I have so much already to offer.

Bonni: [00:19:00] I think it’s actually helped them feel more like we’re partners and there’s less of this. You’re constantly judging me and I’m not good enough and technology sort of feeling. And I just realize we’ve been working on it now for a few weeks and we’re pretty deep into at least the first mottle chapter that than the other chapters will go off and we have an outline and no one has asked a single thing about how are we going to be graded on this it’s not.

Bonni: [00:19:24] No it’s not in the syllabus because again the way we did sort of more of a collaborative syllabus. They know that the assignments there they know how many points it’s worth but no one has said a thing about that because we’re all just doing this together.

Bonni: [00:19:35] I will be I am a co-author with them I am helping them on different chapters and then but they also know there’s some chapters. I know less about because they’re in K through 12 and this is more of a K through 12 geared book and I can help really a lot in these areas but we’ll need to get other people to assess.

Bonni: [00:19:50] So it’s interesting just to think about that dynamic I know recently I saw a post by Jesse Stommel and he wrote about why he stopped grading. And he brings in some of these themes and I’ll post a link to that in the show notes. And I also plan on inviting him to come back on the show because it’s been way too long so maybe he’ll come and talk to us about why he stopped grading.We can hear more about that. Yeah that’s a really interesting distinction.

Katie: [00:20:16] Well and I also just interviewed someone that it hasn’t been released yet but for Research and Action and meeting we can post it after it’s out into the show. So if people want to circle back.

Katie: [00:20:25] But I talked with someone about writing assessment as anti-racist practice and it opened my mind in all kinds of ways. How we’re reading writing and this was someone who had also done research and working with reading contracts instead of you know other kinds of forms of assessment. So it’s going to be a fascinating episode but maybe we can link to that to her folks.

Bonni: [00:20:48] Oh absolutely. Katie all of this when it comes to who we are as learners the vulnerability that it takes what it’s like to be graded and assessed and some of the structure needs that we have. All of this really gets us to think really deeply about what it means to be a teacher. What are some of the themes that you have found about what it means for you to be a teacher. Actually what it means for other people to be a teacher as well the role of teacher is.

Katie: [00:21:15] Sometimes as teacher as we can get wrapped up in all of our own stuff of late prepping and making sure we look like we know what we’re talking about. And you know we get kind of in our own minds about all of it.

Katie: [00:21:29] And I feel like returning to being a student and it helps you to have empathy for what your students are going through and what they’re trying to do and just learning is hard. You know like this is not easy to do. What we’re asking them to do every day in our classrooms is actually really challenging work.

Katie: [00:21:49] And so I think that that theme of empathy is when it is really coming through for me as I’m doing these different learning experiences and really trying to push myself to empathy. And also a second theme is motivation. What is it taking for me as a learner to do this.

Katie: [00:22:08] And I would say it this way after going through years and years and years and years of being in a classroom I’m a relatively sophisticated learner and then I understand how I learn well and I understand my preferences and I feel like I have this extra layer of knowing how the brain works and things like that.

Katie: [00:22:25] But I also still have to really know how to motivate myself and I know that motivation is such a challenging component it’s a question I get all the time from faculty that I work with. How do we motivate our students to learn especially when they are not motivated by the same things that we are. So I think empathy and motivation be my to use. What about you.

Bonni: [00:22:45] I definitely concur on that empathy point that anytime we put ourselves in the role of learner we are being reminded of what that is like and especially those times when we’re graded like you talked about the vulnerability that’s there. You’re making me realize I probably should do that more in some way.

Bonni: [00:23:02] Can I can I go find some opportunities that are a little bit more high pressure than what I currently have been putting off under because they’re all just me taking it in and then doing something with it.

Bonni: [00:23:14] And actually if you think about all the examples that I gave there unless I go out and seek it there isn’t the feedback coming back to me even to know if I’m able. You talked about the coaching I’m familiar with what you’re describing. Not the specific coaching program but just that feeling where you’re learning a model and questions can be quantified.

Bonni: [00:23:37] Is this kind of question I should say qualified as this kind of question or this kind of question or this. That’s a very precise skill that you’re building that people can give very precise feedback on.

Bonni: [00:23:50] And I haven’t really been putting myself in quite as many positions like that so as I look out and think about my own syllabus for my own professional development. Perhaps I can find ways to do that a little bit more than I am currently and I think ultimately I talked about this before but just thinking about sequencing and how people navigate through courses.

Bonni: [00:24:09] There’s a lot that I reflect on as I go through these things and in fact this actually might Tyas really nicely to the recommendation segment because one course that I didn’t talk about but that I have began is one that was developed by you.

Bonni: [00:24:23] And you have a recent to I’m going to say I can’t even imagine how long it took you to make but you have a recent addition to the things that you’re able to offer us as we want to pursue our own professional development.

Bonni: [00:24:34] And I’ve had such a great experience and that was one of the reasons I said Hey Katie you want to come back on the show because I’d love to have you share this opportunity with other people so that they can be able to promote their own books. And I just wanted to pass that over to you now to talk about your new course.

Katie: [00:24:49] Sure. So the talk about like a learning experience. Academics are not trained at all in Book Marketing unless they’re going through like an MBA program or something like that which I certainly did not do myself. And so the last time I was on this show was actually around the time that my second book came out on Blended Course Design for people who listen to that episode and it was a huge learning curve for me to figure out how to talk about that book How to find the right audiences for it how to make sure that was really helping the people that I meant for it to help.

Katie: [00:25:19] And throughout that whole time I was just kind of gathering information like of post books you know I cast episodes all the things that I was trying to gather to help me figure out how to promote this book.

Katie: [00:25:32] And as I talked with more and more academics and academic authors what I realized was nobody knew what they were doing and we were all just kind of experimenting and looking for guidance basically.

Katie: [00:25:43] And so what I decided to do was create a course on academic book promotion to help people have a step by step guide to really create their personalized promotion plan if they were trying to do this and really intentionally try to do it in a purposeful way. So it’s called the academic book promotion tool kit and I launched it this month so this is November 2017 as we record this and of course it is available well link to it in the show notes.

Katie: [00:26:09] And this month and actually doing a couple of promotional offers there is a discount to the course that’s available. A hundred dollars off but there’s also a nice tie in with the Web in our series I’m running right now and writing and publishing which is called How to academia.

Katie: [00:26:23] And I’m offering basically if you buy the course for full price you get access to that Web in our series and that runs throughout the rest of the year into May of 2018. So this is one of those things that I wish I had. It’s a horse and a professional development opportunity that I was seeking and could not find.

Katie: [00:26:42] And whenever I see a gap like that I imagine there are other people who need it too. So I did spend the last like six to eight months pulling this thing together. There’s over 30 video modules and tutorials and all these supplementary resources. I mean an e-book out of the content to make sure people can really get the content in whatever way they want it.

Katie: [00:27:03] So it’s it’s been super fun to put together and I’m excited to share it with folks so we will definitely link to this international so people can take a look and I’m happy to e-mail the people and answer questions about it.

Katie: [00:27:13] But it’s my way of giving back to people who want to be their own professional development because like you said Bonnie were lifelong learners. So I love to contribute to that huge mass of things that are out there that we all don’t have enough time to really work our way through real but we want to. So I was glad to give it to you to start working on promoting your book soon.

Bonni: [00:27:32] Oh yeah Dave and I have this friend who was a professor of ours when we were getting our doctorates and he had written a book. I don’t even know how many years ago it was now. But he said between the time he wrote his first book and then five years later when he wrote his most recent book you said the entire world changed the entire world. Every every possible way he could describe it whether it’s the publishers are no longer saying OK well you’ve written the book. Now you can settle back on your couch and put your feet up and wait for the royalties to come in.

Bonni: [00:28:08] They really are looking for partners in the promotion. I mean at least you know a lot more about this than I do but just hearing this friend talk I really do recognize the need for something like this for people who write books. It just doesn’t seem to be working anymore to be able to find a publisher who’s going to do this.

Bonni: [00:28:24] All of this for you they might do parts of some pieces of it but most of them they’re really looking to you to be able to promote this book and actually be able to articulate back to them how you plan on doing that.

Katie: [00:28:35] Yeah I think it’s a surprise to a lot of new academic authors that in your book proposal you are expected to talk about marketing and you’re expected to talk about your platform basically how many people are following you on social media what’s your network. How many conferences are you attending where you might talk about the book.

Katie: [00:28:52] And I think people are really surprised by that because there is this assumption that publishers are going to kind of roll out the red carpet for your book and take care of a lot of that were you. And even in the trade publishing world it’s not happening very much. And authors are having to underwrite their own you know book tours and things like that.

Katie: [00:29:10] So I mean I think that this is one of those areas where hardily actually gave me the idea for the course was I was talking with my publisher our publisher and I have the same publisher and promotions person there who I partner with quite a bit and she said 75 percent of the actors they work with don’t promote their own books because they don’t know how. I mean it’s not anything more than that.

Katie: [00:29:31] It’s just people as I talk with people and they saw how I was promoting the book. I got a lot of people asking me like how do you do that. And it’s actually not that difficult. It just takes some time to pull together all the resources to figure out how to organize a virtual book tour or how to create a podcast around your book or something like that.

Katie: [00:29:49] So I mean I wanted to put it all in one place and I think that you’re still right Bonni that the landscape of all this keeps changing and with all these new technology tools social media and different possibilities of how you can do these things more easily and more inexpensively the possibilities just keep growing and how you can talk to people about your book and marketing into all different kinds of audiences.

Bonni: [00:30:12] Well Katie I’ve had such a fun time looking at putting ourselves in the role of student and all the benefits that can come out of that and also to get to share with the audience about the Academic Book Promotion Toolkit.

Bonni: [00:30:24] And I can’t wait to see if people show some interest and get access and I’m just looking forward to myself digging back in there getting the on my list of things to be regularly going and seeking out new learning opportunities from things. Thanks so much for coming back on the show today Katie.

Katie: [00:30:40] Thanks for having me Bonni it’s always a pleasure to talk with you.

Bonni: [00:30:43] I’m so grateful for Katie and all that I’ve been able to learn from her and I hope that you got to learn a thing or two from her today as well please go check out her podcasts if you want to hear more. They will be available at the show notes at teachinginhighered.com/180.

Bonni: [00:31:01] And if you have yet to subscribe to the weekly e-mail all the links to the things that Katie and I talked about can come into your inbox without you having to remember to go get them the subscription. Is that teachinginhighered.com/subscribe.

Bonni: [00:31:15] And when you subscribe you’ll also get a free eBook with 19 tools that’ll help you facilitate learning for your students and also improve your personal productivity.

Bonni: [00:31:24] Thanks for listening. If you have yet to write a review for the show this is the time to go and do it so you can help other people discover it. And thanks to those who have recently written the review I really appreciate it. Thanks again for listening. And I’ll see you next time.

Teaching in Higher Ed transcripts are created using a combination of an automated transcription service and human beings. This text likely will not represent the precise, word-for-word conversation that was had. The accuracy of the transcripts will vary. The authoritative record of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcasts is contained in the audio file.