Dave: [00:00:00] Today in episode 208 of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, Bonni shares the 208 backstory.

Production Credit: [00:00:08] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Dave: [00:00:16] Welcome to this episode of teaching in higher ed. I’m Dave Stachowiak and this is the space where we explore the art and science of being more effective at facilitating learning. We also share ways to improve our productivity a purchase so we can have more peace in our lives and be even more pressing for our students.

Dave: [00:00:44] Bonni, if anyone has been following you on social media over the last few years, they may have noticed that the number 208 shows up for you a lot to usernames on social media accounts. And there is actually some deeper meaning behind this number. What’s the relevance of 208? It goes back to you being a kid.

Bonni: [00:01:02] I know – we have to start back from being a kid, but I promise this won’t be an extra long episode or anything like that. I have very fond memories of being about five years old. I used to love playing school at home and I’d have all the stuffed animals and dolls around my room. My room, of course, was my classroom. I would always take on the name Miss Monroe, and that was in reference to the 1970s Charlie’s Angels television show. And my bedroom was always 208, that was the classroom that I made up in my head and I just have fond memories of those times as a girl.

Dave: [00:01:37] So this comes full circle in a way to what’s happening in your life today and we’re going to talk about that because you know this episode 208 so if we’re going to talk about it, we got to talk about it now, right. But in order to get this right, maybe you could share a little more of your journey- people have heard bits and pieces of it along the way on the show over the years. But I was wondering you could share a little bit of your journey of just what has happened professionally since you’ve finished school.

Bonni: [00:02:04] Yeah I did hesitate even doing this on Episode 208 because it feels like a personal story for some reason. I guess maybe it seems like it wouldn’t necessarily be interesting but everyone I’ve ever told it to finds it interesting so I figured, as you said, if I don’t do it now then I can’t ever go back in time. This is it.

Bonni: [00:02:21] So I guess we’ll back away from the 208 and just talk a little bit about my career since I graduated from college when I got my bachelor’s, I was very disappointed to not be able to go to high school. I was not able to go to the fifth year of school that’s required, at least back then that was required in the state of California to get my teaching credential. And my parents were having some real financial issues and I just really didn’t want to be a burden on them and didn’t have experience getting loans, at least not on my own. My parents had taken out a small loan, I think it was actually in my name but I mean they were paying on it. And it was all really scary to me.

Bonni: [00:02:57] So I ended up going to work in the franchise industry for more than a decade. And that’s really where I found that I could take this love that I had for teaching. But I started out, I got to teach computer classes my first year and then teach others how to teach or at least we thought we were teaching by the way. What we were doing was actually walking people through steps, that’s a story for another day which I shared on the podcast before.

Bonni: [00:03:23] And then I got to also then move more on the corporate side of things and be able to teach people about opening the businesses. I learned a lot about different cultures because I was able to travel all over the world, we were in 40 different countries. And I got to visit those places and I got to really work with lots of diverse people who had that entrepreneurial spirit and wanted to open up a computer training business.

Dave: [00:03:47] And you and I met in 2003 and at the time you were a officer of the company, it was a publicly traded company. You were having a really successful career and then a big change happened a couple of months after you and I met.

Bonni: [00:04:01] Yeah I didn’t think this was going to happen to me, naive me. After four rounds of layoffs, I was involved in one and sort of was forced kicking and screaming into the world of consulting which felt very foreign to me. It felt very uncomfortable to have an unpredictable paycheck. I laugh at myself now thinking back to then as I wasn’t convinced I was going to eat everything out of the pantry. I wasn’t going to allow myself to go grocery shopping and I was actually making at that time more money than I had ever made in my life but it just felt really insecure and unpredictable and really hard.

Bonni: [00:04:39] I wanted to mention there’s a wonderful book which if anyone’s ever going through any kind of a transition that is by William Bridges. He wrote a number of books about transitions. One is just his pinacle work that looks at the idea that transitions don’t begin with beginnings, they begin with endings. And then he identifies a season of transitions he calls “the neutral zone” which is where you don’t have the new new yet, it hasn’t been established. But then you’re not in the old old and so you’re just kind of in this very undefined season and it can be both terrible because you don’t know what to predict, but it also can be wonderful because you really just ignite your creativity and all these ideas because just everything is in flux and it can happen that way.

Bonni: [00:05:39] So anyway, Transitions is a wonderful book I just wanted to mention that I revisited during that season. And then he wrote a wonderful book that has just also heartbreaking as he went back through all his decades of studying change after his wife passed away from cancer and she had a seven year long battle with cancer. And he just went and revisited is what I said about change and transition all that time true?

Bonni: [00:06:06] And it was just a really beautiful story. Now you and I both read it slightly apart from each other but you know within a month or two of each other. And we both would get to the part and just cry. One of the chapters was just gut wrenching, but it is a beautiful book. And I’ll include a link to both of those books in the show notes which will be at teachinginhighered.com/208.

Bonni: [00:06:32] So anyway, I did that consulting for awhile and I also got to start teaching as an adjunct which was so fun for me. I had earned my master’s degree and so I had the academic qualifications to do that. And that was just a delight in my life.

Dave: [00:06:47] How did that start? Because I’m realizing I don’t – I remember that time, I remember how panicked you were, even though you were making more money than you ever made doing consulting. The fear, I remember you looking for things in your pantry and it was like you and I were still getting to know each other. It was sort of awkward.

Bonni: [00:07:04] Any of these soups look good?

Dave: [00:07:04] It was kind of an awkward time and I don’t remember how teaching adjunct started for you. What was the beginning?

Bonni: [00:07:14] I don’t know what got me thinking about it but I remember distinctly the Orange County Business Journal has a book of lists that they put out every year. And so I found a list of all of Orange County’s colleges and universities and I wrote a cover letter to them. I remember distinctly, I would go through their course catalog and see which classes that I thought I was capable of teaching.

Bonni: [00:07:35] And I remember the institution that I now work for of course they had said that they didn’t have any openings right then but that they would keep my resume on file and in my vernacular that means “thanks but no thanks” but they actually did keep it on file. And they had a last minute situation with an adjunct who wasn’t able to return from an international trip in time to teach their sales and sales management class. And so they literally called me three days before this semester was supposed to start. But my whole background teaching computer classes that kind of thing happened a lot where someone would get sick or someone wouldn’t show up to teach a class and they’d have to juggle things a lot. So I was like hey I’m used to this. I know how to do that. Of course I didn’t. But I just thought that I did and that was my start in higher education.

Dave: [00:08:18] I didn’t realize it was so intentional that you would send out – I remember you doing that but I didn’t remember that being the start of it. And you know a side note, by the way – I think it’s really brilliant what you did, just from a career strategy for getting in and doing some teaching of you know not only reaching out to people and saying what classes you thought you could teach, which is now in retrospect like that’s a really helpful thing for a dean or departments to know. But also the willingness to like just jump in, not having everything figured out like getting a week’s notice or three days notice and just be willing to jump in. We’ve heard of stories of people who’ve been able to do that even though it wasn’t comfortable and it has opened the doors for other opportunities happening.

Bonni: [00:08:57] It’s interesting they say that because I have a really distinct memory with my dad and we were talking about this when I was managing computer trainers one of the people when they resigned in their letter they actually criticized me and said “Bonni believed in me too much.” It was like a really curious insult. And so it was meant to be an insult. “You know I’m quitting and she shouldn’t do that.” And then we were talking about just fear and people oh she’s so brave, she’s so brave. And my dad said he really seemed to understand me. He’s like it’s not that you’re brave. That’s not why you go and take over a class maybe you’re not as confident teaching or that kind of thing. He’s like you just don’t understand that you have any other choice.

Bonni: [00:09:42] I thought that was really insightful of him in the sense that it is that sense of obligation and wanting to meet the needs, and you know sometimes that can get us into trouble but that’s a topic for another podcast. But certainly I do not consider myself to be a brave person. But I do consider myself to want to be a helpful person and this seemed like a situation I maybe could help out with. But I didn’t know a lot going in surely.

Dave: [00:10:06] So it was a really interesting time because you were teaching adjunct and you were doing some consulting and you also landed this really amazing staff position at the University of California Irvine which is a very large research institution here in Orange County. And you were doing really what you went to school for which is organizational development and leadership and leading up a team there and things were great. You know, the benefits and all the things were going really well and then a decision came.

Bonni: [00:10:36] Yeah.

Dave: [00:10:36] At least an opportunity came, to make a decision, I should say…

Bonni: [00:10:39] Yeah they had a full time opportunity open up where I now work. So spoiler alert you already know what happened. But my friend had said I should consider making that shift. And I said “Actually I don’t really need to take a lot of time because I’ve seen what they pay at that institution” and that’s not something – we weren’t married yet and it seemed unwise to take on such financial constraints. I owned my own home and there was a lot of thought that I just thought, “Oh gosh. That that would never work.”

Bonni: [00:11:08] And she just kept encouraging me to think about it. She said pray about this I want you, I really think this would be a good thing for you. And she also did mention that many of the people who work there keep their consulting opportunities going, their full time primary obligation is at the institution but they are able to pursue that in fact that helps bring more relevant experience into the classroom and contacts for students for internships and things like that. And so I had this sort of joy filled hope but at the same time like oh I couldn’t do that.

Dave: [00:11:41] I remember that because it was a pretty big I mean you just looked at the salary differences between the two jobs I mean it was a pretty big pay cut. But if you looked at it from a standpoint of like oh I could do this and I could take on some consulting things. But it was it was a big decision for you and for us, it was at the time.

Bonni: [00:11:58] Yeah it was a tough decision and it was made a little bit more complicated with some factors that I don’t necessarily want to go too much in-depth with. But there were some… There were some things that came up that made it a little bit less comfortable where there there was a male who was applying at the same time and his offer letter turned out to be different than my offer letter did, in terms of they wanted actually the offer letter they wanted to restrict that I could only do a few hours of consulting every week.

Bonni: [00:12:30] And so I started thinking well a few hours I don’t know some weeks it might be more than that but then some weeks it would be zero and so how is this all work? And I actually had an opportunity to talk to this professor that I regarded so highly at UCI. And she just started laughing at me. She’s like Bonni, you’re just trying to – you’re being very much like a typical woman. By the way, her academic background is in negotiation and how women negotiate so it’s not like she was not like being sexist like I’m making her sound right now but it fit so much because shes like you’re just trying to be like what are all the rules? How can they follow the rules? And she’s like a few hours a week. I’d sign that in a heartbeat because that’s undefined and sure some weeks they work 10 hours and some weeks they were zero. That sounds like a few hours to me. If it were me I would sign that offer letter.

Dave: [00:13:19] All right. So there were a lot of pros and cons to taking this position. Spoiler alert, we know some of the end story here obviously because of this podcast but there’s some interesting parts of this. So before we get to that though we want to say something about the sponsor who made today’s conversation possible.

Bonni: [00:13:36] I talked about having grown up in my career really working in computer training. And so a lot with technology and TextExpander is today’s sponsor and I have been using that software for many many many many moons I don’t even know when they started. I should actually look that up. They probably have it in my account somewhere when I first started using it. But it’s one of the first things I ever install on a new computer. And I just find it so helpful.

Bonni: [00:14:00] We’ve talked about it on past episodes because I’m fortunate that they’ve been a sponsor a number of times where you just type in a few keystrokes that you set up they’re called snippets. It’s such a cute little word. And then you press your spacebar and then it spits out whatever text that you’ve put in there, your phone number, your mailing address and I use it for the Teaching in Higher Ed show notes. I do it to thank people for coming on the show and have the links in the various places where they can find the podcast if they want to.

Bonni: [00:14:28] It’s just a really helpful tool and one of the recent upgrades that they had is that you can use it with teams. And you and I haven’t actually set it up yet as a team. We’re not sharing TextExpander snippets but I imagine that someday we might find some benefit to that. And every time I take a little break and I think about how I could use text expander more in my work it’s wonderful and in fact there are entire texts expander snippet databases that you can just download to your computer and use in conjunction. They’ve got all these fancy date formats they’ve got some specific to different types of professions and I just find that really helpful to be able to brainstorm through others use of text expander and have that for ease of mind. I really really like it. You can set up different folders and it’s a terrific application, we just thank them so much for sponsoring today’s show.

Dave: [00:15:19] And one of the things I’ve trained my mind to think about with TextExpander I any time I catch myself typing the same thing more than two or three times is to discipline myself to create a snippet out of it. One of the things I do every week is send out a weekly guide to my listening audience and that starts with a TextExpander snippet, I type in the Z guide and it populates all the headings and the titles and links and then I’ll just populate it from there what’s going to go with that particular week and it saves me, just that saves me five or ten minutes every week. That adds up over time. There’s so many different applications that I’ve been using over the years.

Bonni: [00:15:55] You remember to think when you find yourself typing the same thing more than once but they actually have a setting where it will warn you it all say hey you’ve typed this a few times do you want to add it as a snippet?

Dave: [00:16:06] Oh I forgot about that.

Bonni: [00:16:08] I turned it off because I found out that I’m not ready to do that right now but it is kind of cool if you want it to really help maximize the use of it.

Dave: [00:16:17] So the old phrase an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure is right.

Bonni: [00:16:20] Thanks to TextExpander again for sponsoring today’s episode and now on with this very suspenseful ending that we already know.

Dave: [00:16:28] Dun dun dun. So you ultimately decided to, of course we know the end of the story, you decided to take this position. And what was the turning point for you? I mean I’m curious about what happened afterwards, but do you remember what the turning point was for why you decided to say yes?

Bonni: [00:16:41] Well this is one of the things that feels really personal to me because I just – I did find myself asking for some kind of a billboard sign. Like a really obvious sign that I should take this job and you know I’m not a particularly superstitious person or like I don’t know it feels personal just to admit that I was doing that. It’s an uncomfortable thing to talk about but that’s really what I was doing was sort of praying like please give me a billboard, give me a billboard, give me a sign. And I actually didn’t have a sign. It’s kind of like I was upset just, they weren’t the greatest. These are colleagues by the way and friends of mine. You know that I’m long since passed at all feeling bitter about it.

Bonni: [00:17:21] But I do think there are some things we can learn about continuing to cultivate a candidate while they’re still in the process. That’s really important for long term retention and helping someone have a welcoming experience when they’re new to an institution. So again I’m not bitter about it but I do reflect often on that it was not the greatest experience that I was just like I don’t know, is this something I should do?

Bonni: [00:17:45] And I kind of wanted to and you actually encouraged me, you weren’t giving me advice but you encouraged me that if it was something I wanted to do that the money stuff would work out and we would figure it out together and that was really nice to have that confidence that you know going into our marriage that was something that you would not be upset about you know the potentially making so much less money. So I didn’t get the sign, but I decided to accept the offer anyway and then something very cool happened.

Dave: [00:18:12] Yeah. So the day after you accepted the offer, you walked up into the building where you were going to be.

Bonni: [00:18:18] Yeah I went down and spoke with the administrative assistant and she was giving me- actually I don’t know- I think she might have been giving me like a textbook or something. I don’t remember exactly why I was seeing her and then she’s like oh and then if you want to see where your office is going to be you can go right down it’s the last one on the hall on the left.

Bonni: [00:18:35] And so I went down the hall and then I looked and I noticed that the office number was 208. And of course it just thought back to being five years old and all the disappointment that I didn’t get to teach high school and had always wanted to do that and everything felt like it had just come full circle, like it all made sense and I just sat on the stool and just started to cry and called my mom and said “Mom they just showed me what my office is and it’s 208. Can you believe it?” She always knew that that was my favorite number.

Bonni: [00:19:15] People would always randomly ask what’s your favorite number? And they expect something like – seven! 208 is really random. And I just felt like I had gotten my billboard but I didn’t get it until after I made that step to accept the role and it just felt really incredible and yet still uncomfortable to talk about. I don’t feel superstitious about 208 in the sense of like my dentist office used to be 208 and I didn’t stay with him. Like I can’t leave. He’s in office 208 you know and our dentist now is wonderful and he is not in office 208.

Dave: [00:19:51] It all worked out OK. What do you do if you end up needing to move offices? That actually came up.

Bonni: [00:20:00] It did come up and that’s one of those stories of organizational politics because had I accepted what they were trying to get me to do to move, I would have done it for nothing because already the situation where they had put someone in the office the person is not in the office. So it’s like I was glad that I pushed back a little bit, it’s not like it’s the end of the world. But I do. There are other factors besides that it’s 208, it also has a wonderful window. I like that it’s right on the side, I can like quick escape if I ever need to get out, I’m right by the door. I always enjoy that. I like to be on the end in airplanes and in theaters. It’s the quick escape.

Dave: [00:20:40] So I guess one serious question or that too is every one of these situations I mean career like a major life decision like this. It’s so personal every time. I mean it’s there’s so many variables and you made a decision that you know you might have not made a year or two prior to that. Right. But what advice do you have for people when they’re thinking about making a big change like this or making a big career move?

Bonni: [00:21:06] One thing that comes to mind is that there are, in every situation I know of and not just specifically in academia, but there’s so many things that you couldn’t possibly understand at that point. But it’s like your your intuition may start to tell you you know I wonder what that’s about and something feels weird here. And in my experience, you don’t really find out what was going on until you’ve been in that job for six months a year you know. But then you can see it so clearly.

Bonni: [00:21:34] Now whenever someone’s applying for a job that somehow I am involved in the search process I always wish that there would be ways I could be more transparent but it’s never appropriate for me because I’m not the hiring manager and that would be really disrespectful of me to start stepping on people’s toes.

Bonni: [00:21:51] But I’m I was thinking like oh yeah. She asked that question because she really has this perception and I don’t agree with it. AndI mean it’s just like there’s so much that you can’t understand. So I guess to to try to do what you can to find out sort of the lay of the land, not solely in interviews. Because interviews, you never know the cast of characters especially if you go on like an on site interview and higher ed, you don’t know who’s going to show up.

Bonni: [00:22:22] And at my institution there’s different phases of course but there’s always a lunch for any faculty that want to come and talk to a candidate. And it’s like you don’t know who’s going to be there. You don’t know how closely you’d work with that person you know and you can start to have your perception changed by things that really- I mean so I’m glad that I took the role even though I don’t think they were necessarily very good at cultivating me as a potential candidate. And so I guess I would just tell others try to get information from other places.

Dave: [00:22:51] And you did that because even though you were going through the official process you had someone you’d got to know as a teacher an adjunct to his full time. You know she was helping youth through the kind of you know think about the politics and kind of the unofficial things happening to you to talk to some other people at other institutions for the perspective. I think it is really wise that you did that.

Bonni: [00:23:09] Yeah. In fact the woman I spoke to at UCI that one of the things I didn’t mention earlier is that she had said not only would she sign that with this nebulous a few hours a week. She said that they have to detail all of their outside income because it’s a public institution. So if she ever does a speaking engagement where there’s an honorarium or she does some consulting once a year they have to outline those things. And it shows up as a potential conflict of interest for their research endeavors. And so she’s like are you kidding me? The only thing that they want you to do? And so just getting a sense of what’s realistic to expect and talking to different people I think can be really helpful too.

Dave: [00:23:50] That’s one of the things I really value about this show and all the guests you have on while I’m not a teacher instructor in the traditional sense. There’s something that I gain from every person you had someone on a couple of weeks ago was talking about oh I can’t remember the topic now but I was thinking wow that’s so applies for something we’re doing in our business on the other side and the value of getting perspective from others outside of your typical frame of reference of you’re are the three people I talk to every day or interact with or my three friends. I mean those people are great too of course but also in addition to that of getting the perspective from some of those weaker connections is really powerful.

Bonni: [00:24:29] Yeah, yeah I think that’s really wise.

Dave: [00:24:32] Well speaking of getting perspective we always end the Teaching in Higher Ed episodes, at least you always end the episodes with some recommendations. So what recommendations do you have for our listening audience today?

Bonni: [00:24:44] I thought we might have a little a few extra minutes so I’m going to not just do one I’m going to do a few. And I want to start out by saying I’m sort of cheating here a little bit because I didn’t go and look up to see if I had already recommended this app I probably already have. But a new version came out so I never recommend the same thing twice. But since it’s a new version I’m not going to count it. And that is on IOS on an iPhone. There is an app called Drafts and they just came out with Drafts 5.

Bonni: [00:25:11] And what I love about drafts 5 and also any of you on Android devices just this idea of having an app that just you open it and you can start typing something in and it sort of reverses how most apps work. Most apps I want to know what is it that you want to do? You want to send an e-mail? Do you want to send a text message? Do you want to create a document that’s just like a brainstorm? And then after you figure out what you want to do you can start writing. But in the case of Drafts it’s just something out there that needs capturing.

Bonni: [00:25:47] I’m using the language of David Allen’s Getting Things Done. He calls this capture. And so there’s this idea I want to capture and maybe I text that idea to someone maybe I put it in Evernote, which is the notebook system. I use maybe I put it in a file but it’s first capturing and then figuring out what I want to do with it.

Bonni: [00:26:07] And one of the cool things, Dave I know you’ve been doing, and I started doing too is we both own Apple watches. So now we don’t even have to pick up our phone to capture, we can literally just tap on the little it’s called a complication. So it’s right on if you’ll consider this like the home screen of our Apple watches. So we tap and then we can either record it with our voice and it’ll translate that to text or we can scribble it in which I’ve done both versions of as well.

Bonni: [00:26:31] And it’s just a great app so if you are looking for something to be able to just jot a quick note capture an idea, Drafts 5 is great. And before I go on to my next one did you want to add anything? I know you’ve been playing with it too.

Dave: [00:26:41] I think you covered it.

Bonni: [00:26:43] The next one I wanted to recommend is a movie. I got to go out to Louisiana State University to do a couple of workshops for their Communication Across the Curriculum Summer Institute. I was so honored to be there and I was also excited because they had a new pair of Bose headphones which I should say for recommending a future episode. But I got to watch this movie called The King’s Speech. I went back and looked at all of the ones that had won awards and which ones I hadn’t seen. And it is a fabulous movie about King, actually a king, someone who became king and had a speech impediment and some coating that he got in is just a really cool story.

Bonni: [00:27:25] And then I wanted to say that recently I came out with a 2018 Podcast Greats. I tried to once a year capture all the podcasts that are my favorites that I’m listening to. It was a long post and I encourage people to go check that out and if you want some ideas for a new podcast to listen to, you might look through the different categories and see if one stands out to you. If you’re not looking for new podcast to listen to definitely don’t go look at that post.

Dave: [00:27:52] We need to do a post on helping you to cure your podcast addiction of too many podcasts you’re listening to. It’s ridiculous.

Bonni: [00:27:58] Too many podcasts, it’s ridiculously long. It is ridiculous. And then my last recommendation is to follow up on the episode that I got to have with Kelly Hogan and Viji Sathy and they profiled, the two of them, in an article in The Chronicle and it’s titled Traditional Teaching May Deepen Equality, Can a Different Approach Fix It? And that’s by Becky Supiano in The Chronicle, just a great article to check out. So it’s kind of my hodgepodge. I decided to do some catch up since I try to only recommend one thing but I thought we might have time for more than one today.

Dave: [00:28:34] I have one recommendation that actually relates to today’s conversation as well. I was thinking about what you were saying earlier Bonni on just you know starting your teaching and then having a salary that having projects. And you and I have not had a set like income or like how much money we were taken as a family since 2002 or 2003. I mean really since the day we got married, our income has been different every month. So you’ve had a salary, I have not had a salary since everything I’ve done is project based or consulting based. And even for you though, you are often doing projects and doing keynote speeches. And so our income is different every single month.

Bonni: [00:29:20] [sarcastically] And I love it.

Dave: [00:29:22] She doesn’t. So I think if you are the kind of person. And I think that’s true for a lot of people who listen the show. It may be you’re teaching at a couple of different institutions, you have different income come in at different times of the year, especially if you’re teaching adjunct. But even those folks who are on a quote on quote regular salary teaching full time. A lot of folks do do some other projects and have other things going on in their world.

Bonni: [00:29:46] Well and also many of us have expenses that show up and then don’t shop for a few months. Most car insurance today is maybe at least once every six months or once a year. So expenses can really be variable and unpredictable as well.

Dave: [00:30:01] All this to say that traditional personal budgets was something we always struggled with for like the first decade of our marriage. You know we had a budget, but we never really- we didn’t really use it for decision making because it was kind of meaningless because we’d have months where we’d have huge income and then we have months we’d have no income and then it just it just didn’t map out. We discovered a few years ago a system called You Need A Budget. Youneedabudget.com.

Dave: [00:30:26] It is both a system and it is also software so you can use it as your method for tracking and your check register and tracking finances. But what’s really powerful about You Need a Budget is the rules of there are four rules they have for how to take control of your money and save more money. And particularly for people who have any kind of variable income, it has been unbelievably helpful to me especially since I’m the person who does our financial reconciliation and pays the bills and all that of just being able to have a sense of where we are planning, budgeting and actually using it to make decisions effectively.

Dave: [00:31:03] So if you are like us and you have not been happy with some of the other systems out there or of just kind of always find them lacking or are you not really paying attention to them much or they don’t really drive your decisions in the way you want them to. I would certainly recommend looking at You Need a Budget. And the reason I was thinking about that Bonni is because I interviewed the founder earlier today, we’re going to be airing that episode coming up here in a few weeks right around the time this episode airs so maybe we’ll put a link in there for folks who want to learn more.

Bonni: [00:31:28] I’m looking to hearing that interview.

Dave: [00:31:32] Thank you for listening to this week’s Teaching in Higher Ed episode. If he’d like to get the links to all the things we’ve mentioned, especially the recommendations today go over to teachinginhighered.com/208. Go to that number and you’ll find everything you need.

Dave: [00:31:46] And while you’re online, go over to teachinginhighered.com/subscribe. You will get Bonni’s update every week. She writes an article each week she mentioned one of the articles earlier on the podcast recommendations. Also the show notes are included for every episode. If you’re not already getting those, get that and you’ll also get right away access to her guide on 19 ed tech essentials but the real treat is getting all these resources in your inbox every week. And Bonni, thanks so much for giving me a pleasure to interview you, it was fun.

Bonni: [00:32:19] Yeah thanks for talking me through this story that we can only tell one time.

Dave: [00:32:24] It’s over now, onto 209. See you in a week.

Teaching in Higher Ed transcripts are created using a combination of an automated transcription service and human beings. This text likely will not represent the precise, word-for-word conversation that was had. The accuracy of the transcripts will vary. The authoritative record of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcasts is contained in the audio file.