Bonni: [00:00:00] This is the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast and this episode is lessons in teaching from The Princess Bride.

Production Cred: [00:00:07] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Bonni: [00:00:20] Welcome to this episode of Teaching in Higher Ed. This is the space where we explore the art and science of being more effective at facilitating learning. We also share ways to increase our personal productivity approaches so we can have more peace in our lives and be even more present for our students.

Bonni: [00:00:38] This is Bonni Stachowiak and I am once again joined by Dave Stachowiak. Hello Dave.

Dave: [00:00:44] Hello Bonni. Glad to be back.

Bonni: [00:00:46] Nice to be back. So on my Facebook page I have liked among other things the page for the movie The Princess Bride and the other day I shared with them with the people who I’m hooked up with on Facebook.

Bonni: [00:01:01] The quote, “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means” and it got a lot of traction and so I kind of felt this inspirational thought we should build a podcast around the lessons on teaching from The Princess Bride. So that’s what we are here to do today.

Dave: [00:01:19] There’s so much in life that comes back to the Princess Bride.

Bonni: [00:01:22] It is true.

Dave: [00:01:23] Throughout my life. There have been many analogies made to The Princess Bride and so this is the this is the next one.

Bonni: [00:01:30] And so Dave I remember you said you couldn’t remember a tremendous amount from the movie and that’s OK because we are not going to quiz you however I will tell people who are listening if you want to go to the show notes. That’s at teachinginhighered.com/3.

Bonni: [00:01:47] This is the third episode of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcasts. If you go there you can link to that same Princess Bride page on Facebook and you also can go check out their store. They have magnets for sale which I think would be great if any of our fridges actually were still magnetic.

Bonni: [00:02:06] If anyone listening has a stainless steel fridge you probably can’t stick anything to it but that’s just a shame I miss fridge magnets.

Dave: [00:02:15] So many people were tuning into this episode just hoping…

Bonni: [00:02:18] Yes.

Dave: [00:02:19] Wishing you we’re going to talk about fridge magnets…

Bonni: [00:02:21] Well in addition to that you could play The Princess Bride party game.

Dave: [00:02:25] You’re killing me.

Bonni: [00:02:26] You could also test your knowledge of the Princess Bride by taking the quiz questions like who played the grandson, which Dave I don’t know. Do remember that the actor who played the grandson?

Dave: [00:02:38] I’m having a hard time remembering the details other than the main main characters. It’s been years since I’ve seen it so I don’t.

Bonni: [00:02:44] Well he was also in a television show which was popular when I was growing up called The Growing Years. And Dave for anyone listening who doesn’t know this which is pretty much all of you who might not know this is six years younger than me and those six years is not a huge gap.

Bonni: [00:02:57] But when it comes to TV and movies we do have a little bit of a gap. So Fred Savage was on The Growing…

Dave: [00:03:03] Oh Fred Savage, I know. Growing… Uhh…

Bonni: [00:03:06] No.

Dave: [00:03:07] What was it called? [singing] “What Would You Do If I Sang Out of Tune?”

Bonni: [00:03:14] Ok. So we could look that up and put it in the show notes because they are just singing for the next 20 minutes. Thank you. At any rate you could you could look up questions like that and also what town is Inigo Montoya from? Which… I didn’t know that one.

Bonni: [00:03:27] So anyway three lessons that we can take away from the Princess Bride in teaching and to begin with that first one I just mentioned you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. This brought up so many thoughts from me about teaching.

Bonni: [00:03:45] It is so often that I find in teaching undergraduates that we have conditioned in our educational system for students to think about things in terms of having right and wrong answers.

Bonni: [00:03:58] So a lot of times I find students they just want to memorize the words that either the professor is saying or that they’re reading in the textbook and they think that’s going to be their key to learning in college.

Bonni: [00:04:10] And of course there is far too many words that a professor is going to say or that there are far too many pages in those textbooks to have that be an effective strategy even if you were only aiming toward earning grades.

Bonni: [00:04:24] But of course those of us that teach in higher education we want more than the grade we want to help equip people for what they’re going to encounter in the world. And so a couple of thoughts in terms of this we need to be thinking about our own use of vocabulary. I have met with many professors and worked with them and coached them to help them think about their vocabulary and to try to.

Bonni: [00:04:51] Try to think back with beginner’s mind or was really challenging to do. But what it would be like to be thinking about your area of expertise your discipline for the first time and being able to break those things down and sometimes will do it inadvertently.

Bonni: [00:05:04] I know for myself I teach a sales class as a part of our marketing curriculum and I might mistake and use words like leads – sales leads – and then students don’t know what that means.

Bonni: [00:05:13] So if we’re doing more asking questions and are teaching and having more of a dialogue with our students that’s where we can begin to see where there’s a disconnect between the words that we’re using and how students are interpreting them.

Bonni: [00:05:26] So a couple of things tools for people listening. One thing I encourage is to try to get more of our students doing more doodling in their notetaking in our classes. This is a whole discipline a whole area of expertise called Visual Thinking or visualization.

Bonni: [00:05:42] It’s a number of different ways that it’s categorized but I’ve got a link in the show notes that will take you to all the bookmarks that I have saved on Visual Thinking and you’ll see some great examples there. Part of that is taking notes in a visual way.

Bonni: [00:05:58] One of the things that I do for my introductory class is I build things called pen casts and a pen cast is where you’re drawing with a pen. But it’s a specially designed pen that allows you to record audio with it and the audio is sync up with your writing.

Bonni: [00:06:16] So you can can almost give a little mini lecture I try not to make these too long but I think about a visual drawing I could do that could help students then remember better what I’m saying.

Bonni: [00:06:28] Just one example is I have four fundamentals of business as one of my first lectures and intro to business and I draw four different buildings and they’re right next to a kind of skyscraper type things and then inside of the windows of the building is one drawing for each one.

Bonni: [00:06:46] So one example is entrepreneurship and on that one I draw a light bulb on that side of that building. So that’s. Oh entrepreneurship ideas. Oh OK. So it helps them without them realizing it because a lot of times they think notes have to look like Cornell Notes.

Bonni: [00:07:02] And that’s – I actually really benefited a lot from Cornell notes. I’m not putting them down. But another means for helping students synthesize learning is by helping them draw more.

Bonni: [00:07:12] And there’s actually research out there that says even if students just doodle. If they’re doodling flowers butterflies. It does not even matter. It actually activates their brain more and their retention is higher – even if the doodling is not on the subject that’s being talked about.

Dave: [00:07:27] Yeah I think that there’s so much here that – we could do a whole show just on this and probably we should at some point. I think the key is is getting out of that typical I stand in front of the room and I talk about really big words and people write them down and try to memorize them.

Dave: [00:07:45] And so I think the pen cast is really a neat innovative thing I’ve seen you do and students really resonate with that really challenges you as an instructor to think about it in a different way to describe it that is going to be a little simpler for people to understand.

Dave: [00:08:01] And I know we spend a lot of time in our training business of trying to encourage presenters in the business world to get away from using things like acronyms and jargon and words that their audience isn’t going to understand.

Dave: [00:08:14] So if you can get a look at it from their perspective I think that that’s really helpful. And I have to say that I think some of the obstacles of this to come from students I know teaching a couple of graduate classes a year. I don’t go into a classroom and lecture for 45 minutes or an hour or whatever it is about what was in the book.

Dave: [00:08:37] I go on the assumption people have read it and I want people to have a richer dialogue in the classrooms. All items just pose questions. We’ll talk about it. And there are students who do not like that. They are like where’s the PowerPoint with all of the terms and what’s the key points we need to know.

Dave: [00:08:56] And I get pushback on that sometimes. And I tell people upfront you know hey you can get that from the book. The classroom is the chance to have a dialogue.

Dave: [00:09:06] Let’s talk about it from a real life experience to how you apply it to your workplace and that’s a little easier to do at the graduate level than it sometimes is at the undergrad level but. But whatever it is you’re doing.

Dave: [00:09:16] Whether it’s dialogue whether it’s something visual of getting out of that traditional you know we have this all knowing faculty member that stands up there and deposits information into the brains of the people listening.

Dave: [00:09:30] There are there’s a time and a place for that kind of methodology but it is one piece of a larger puzzle with learning.

Bonni: [00:09:36] The next one is the ever classic quote from The Princess Bride. “As you wish.” And listeners might remember that’s what the main character would say all of the time to the main female character was “as you wish” and that was his way of telling her that he loved her.

Bonni: [00:09:55] And this one is really to me we want to be paying attention to our students wishes paying attention to their dreams and recognizing and helping them see that in order to achieve their dreams.

Bonni: [00:10:08] It’s going to take a lot to get there if you think about the princess bride he had to go to the forest and fight the ROUSs and to do a number of sword fights there’s an awful lot of sword fighting that goes on in The Princess Bride in order to get there.

Bonni: [00:10:22] And our students have to go through so much. In a past episode I talked about that student who comes to mind so often for me whose dad was dying of cancer during the semester.

Bonni: [00:10:32] I have had a number of other students who have had parents pass away either right before school or during. I mean just unbelievable difficult times that students have to go through.

Bonni: [00:10:43] And it has been so rewarding for me to tell you… I’m using an extreme example there that’s not of course a common thing but to me that some of the worst things that happen and what is nice to see now is I don’t have any example of any of those students who I’ve seen go through such devastating things where today now five, 10 years later there’s not at least some good that came out of a horrific situation in the sense of none of them just stayed where they were in life and never never finish school.

Bonni: [00:11:14] All of them finish college successfully through a tremendous group of faculty and staff who came together and helped them and supported them during an incredibly difficult time in their lives.

Bonni: [00:11:27] So there’s a couple of words that come up for me here that you will find a lot in the academic literature for teaching in that building grit and building resilience.

Bonni: [00:11:38] And how crucial that is for our students today. Psychology Today had a definition resilience is “that ineffable quality that allows some people to be knocked down by life and come back stronger than ever. Rather than letting failure overcome them and drain their resolve they find a way to rise from the ashes.”

Bonni: [00:11:57] Psychologists have identified some of the factors that make someone resilient. Among them a positive attitude optimism the ability to regulate emotions and the ability to see failure as a form of helpful feedback and that’s the end of that quote.

Dave: [00:12:15] And grit is a word that is becoming such a part of the literature on human motivation and success that more and more researchers are starting to find that things like resilience and grit really are the difference maker between whether someone is able to work through challenges in life.

Dave: [00:12:33] And ultimately you know get to the goals that they want to or whether someone stumbles and is unable to recover from those and I don’t know the literature well enough to know specifically how they make the distinction between those two words but.

Dave: [00:12:46] But there are a lot of similarities. You know the ability to develop that skill where you can and respond and work through a very challenging a difficult situation.

Bonni: [00:12:59] To anyone listening when I was in college in the early 90s at Chapman University here in Orange California and as an undergrad I was I was just an average student. I mean I had a decent GPA tended to get A’s in classes that were in my major and seasoned classes that weren’t I didn’t have any aspirations for grad school.

Bonni: [00:13:19] I probably couldn’t have even told you what that was at the time. And so I think I try to think back off into what it was like for me in school. So I think I’m probably pretty much going to fit and an average student if there is such a thing.

Bonni: [00:13:32] And also think back to what it is now that I still carry all these years later from my experience as an undergrad. We recently had one of their professors an economics professor there retire and we got to go hear him give his last lecture.

Bonni: [00:13:47] And that was so funny for me to think back to his econ class because what I remember about econ the only thing I can remember from that class taking out of it (this is terrible) but was the idea of that we don’t own the sky and the air and how when we think about resources and scarce resources that there are things that are easier because we actually own them like cars and things.

Bonni: [00:14:16] But then there’s all these things we don’t own. I remember him contrasting about regulation versus the self-imposed regulation that comes from an economic system like capitalism.

Bonni: [00:14:27] But I could never have actually articulated like that back then. And then the other thing I remember is this is what I remember more than anything was used to lock the door.

Bonni: [00:14:35] So it wasn’t just don’t come late to my class it was – yeah good luck cause you’re not getting in. If you come even a minute late he would lock the door. I’m sure there’s some fire code issue with today but I remember occasionally he’d forget to lock the door and someone would come in and sit down.

Bonni: [00:14:51] And oh ho ho ho you did not want to be that person. So I was grateful that my mom had always taught me to be a pretty timely prompt person because I would have been – that would have been difficult for me if I had been called attention to like that for not being on time.

Bonni: [00:15:05] So I think I think back to him as really being over the years probably better at building resilience and grit than he than he probably was at teaching econ. That’s just the nature I think of the subject and the maturity level what people are thinking about at that age I don’t know.

Bonni: [00:15:22] But but certainly those were the lessons that as we went to his last lecture. So many former students were there and shared their stories of him and if I think back to the stories that were shared that day so many of them were tied to two that’s that sense of discipline and rigor and you better get it together kind of thing.

Dave: [00:15:42] And it’s interesting you bring up economics and I don’t have the literature to cite from this but I know that among economists one of the things that they would say is that a college degree is one of the things that separates people you know figuring out who has the grit and resilience in order to be successful in the workplace and those that don’t.

Dave: [00:16:07] So it’s not even so much about the knowledge that you gain getting an undergraduate degree. But it’s it’s the ability to demonstrate that you can follow through on something for four years and reach an objective and work through the challenges and the obstacles that everyone works through to achieve an undergraduate degree.

Dave: [00:16:26] And I know there’s there’s a subset of economists that claim that that that’s the that’s one of the biggest screening points of figuring out if someone has that ability to do that comes up a lot in human resources too.

Bonni: [00:16:39] Well I would say to people who major in something very specific like theater for example it can be difficult to express in a resume how theater major is going to translate into for example working in an accounting department.

Bonni: [00:16:53] So let’s I don’t want to oversimplify things but for some of the majors that are more generalist type of majors there is that screening that says hey this person got through four years and was able to fulfill a long term goal.

Bonni: [00:17:08] Now that’s where things like internships come up as the important thing for us to be encouraging our students to do in our in our programs always figuring out a way to help our students have those practical hands on experience is while they’re in whether this is an undergrad or a graduate program the next.

Bonni: [00:17:26] And last lesson from the Princess Bride about teaching is beware of ROUSS’s.

Bonni: [00:17:34] And for those of you who haven’t seen the movie or it’s been a while these are those rodents of unusual size and in academia. What I want to share about this is there are definitely faculty personalities of unusual size that we should be aware of. There is such…

Dave: [00:17:53] Surely you jest.

Bonni: [00:17:55] There is such a dynamic of power in academic institutions and sometimes it’s hard to recognize other times it’s not. I mean the clear thing is there’s this power dynamic between am I a faculty member or my staff and the big great divide and sometimes faculty really like to flaunt that.

Bonni: [00:18:14] The other thing that some faculty like to flaunt as I have tenure you don’t so there’s that big tender dynamic. Tenure is the only thing is the strangest institution. To me still and well I really think it has tremendous benefits and I’m not.

Bonni: [00:18:27] This is not the time we’re going to actually go through and debate tenure and it’s good good and bad aspects but it is such an unusual thing for me as someone who worked in human resources for so many years to realize that in academia the only job I can think of that the day you start is the day you start down your path.

Bonni: [00:18:45] If you don’t get hired in the next five years or however many years it is for tenure seven years you’re fired. I mean that is that is the strangest thing. And very little feedback is often given to faculty members along the way so you see them at that last stretch where things can have change.

Bonni: [00:19:06] Don’t have to go farther than the headlines of the Chronicle to see examples of this happening. I just saw last week again a lawsuit that came out. I won’t say the name of the institution because when you’re listening may not be the week but go look up there there’ll be other examples of something that’s gone wrong. I mean there’s just really a strange dynamic.

Dave: [00:19:24] I hope I hope you explore the tenure question on the show here at some point in more detail because it is really there are some wonderful reasons to have tenure in higher education institutions.

Dave: [00:19:34] And it is a very good at looking at it more from an outsider I’ve taught adjunct for years at universities. But but as a business person primarily it is an odd system in a lot of ways looking at it from the outside.

Dave: [00:19:46] And I know you’ve you know you’ve had your experiences with it too and so I’m really I think there’ll be an interesting thing especially for those listening who are in the stages of going through that process of you know what are some ways to navigate that and what’s kind of the ways to think about that in a really healthy way given the system what it is but it does create some really interesting power dynamics among faculty in particular.

Bonni: [00:20:10] And it’s not just tenure you’re listing and you already have tenure or you’re in an institution that no longer or never had a tenure type system. There still are all these power dynamics and one of the things we’ll see in some academic institutions is a culture of learned helplessness.

Bonni: [00:20:26] And a lot of that can feel like the tension between faculty and administration and feeling like I have these ideas I have things I can offer but it doesn’t matter because decisions have already been made. All these things having to do with power in organizations I think are crucial to be aware of.

Bonni: [00:20:42] Now a couple couple notes there are a couple of researchers French and Raven who all the way back in 1959 identified five bases of power in organizations for individuals.

Bonni: [00:20:56] And so it isn’t just power tenure versus not or I am a Chair I am a Dean or not. I could see people chuckling that are chairs going: “We have the least power of anyone…” Sorry chairs. Oftentimes in academia the Chair has the title but even oftentimes feels that real helplessness in that position but nonetheless there’s this legitimate power because my title says I have authority to do something but there are other types of powers that can show up there’s expert power. There’s really just referent power that says I admire you and I. I honor what it is that you do and the contributions and I want to learn from me.

Bonni: [00:21:31] That’s a type of power someone can can earn in academic institutions a committee that makes decisions about where resources goes. There’s another source of power that’s important to understand in academia. So we’ve got these bases of power to be aware of and that all of us have the ability to gain more power.

Bonni: [00:21:51] We all do. It just may not come in the ways in which we’re used to seeing power show up in our own past lives and organizations. That is to be aware of it and then to wanting to remember we all can be corrupted by power and so we want to be using the power that we have been afforded in organizations to influence toward toward good.

Bonni: [00:22:15] There’s a game that a lot of times people play in understanding culture in organizations and how power works is called the power game and so it might show up for some of you in the area of sociology could show up an organizational leadership.

Bonni: [00:22:29] And Dave I believe you’ve played the power game before.

Dave: [00:22:32] I play it regularly with a graduate class I teach group dynamics and conflict.

Bonni: [00:22:38] But have you played it yourself? Have you been a participant in the power game?

Dave: [00:22:42] I actually never. I’ve been an observant participant but I’ve never actually been a part of one of the groups in the game.

Bonni: [00:22:47] So how it works is that everyone gets a slip of paper that says you’re either top middle or bottom. There are of course variations on this game but that’s essentially what you get a slip of paper that says: Top, middle, or bottom.

Bonni: [00:23:00] And then there’s some sort of resource that’s given out. Sometimes it’s cash sometimes it’s food whatever it is but there’s a scarce resource that a larger percentage of it is given to the tops a small portion of it is given to the metals of course none of it’s given to the bottoms.

Bonni: [00:23:14] And then with very little structure which frustrates the heck out of some people who are players in the game but very little structure it’s worked out.

Bonni: [00:23:23] And I think the problem with the power game is to distance ourself and say oh this you know I’m not affected by power it’s just like my students and marketing who say they’re not affected by brands oh I’m completely Oh no I don’t care about brands and when we start going whenever people say well let’s look at what clothes you’re wearing and let’s look at your purse or whatever.

Bonni: [00:23:42] Let’s look at your phone that you’re watching and then to help people discover we are all affected by power. And so the key to something like the power game is to raise our own self awareness not to start pointing fingers at other people. Oh look at how that person responded to power about how each one of us can respond to feelings of powerlessness as well as power.

Dave: [00:24:03] There’s a phrase in the organizational behavior circles that if you put a good person in a bad system the system will win every time. And I do think that’s mostly true or not always that systems do have a lot of influence on us.

Dave: [00:24:20] And so even if we think we are immune from these types of things just by nature of working in a large organization where these power dynamics are there means that we will be affected by them. So I think a good starting point for many of us is to take a look at some of these power dynamics say it or check out the show notes here for more details of course.

Dave: [00:24:43] And to just recognize how that’s true for you and in your institution and in your work and how that shows up and how you utilize those things both for good and for evil because we all do we all we all fall into that to some extent and to the extent that we’re aware of that it will help to navigate it in a smart political way.

Dave: [00:25:08] And you know organizational politics that term is thrown around a lot as a negative thing but but organizational politics can be used for really good things to and really positive things and so utilizing politics and power in order to drive a result that’s helpful for you for your students and for the organization could be a really really powerful way to look at this.

Bonni: [00:25:29] This is the part in this show where each of us shares an edtech tool so I’m going to start with mine. I just discovered a student had told me to go look at this tool and I thought oh it’s another one of those. I don’t even have time. Oh yeah I’ve heard of it before I read about it. Okay great.

Bonni: [00:25:46] I moved on okay for some reason I got there again yesterday it’s called HaikuDeck and it’s unbelievable. I had to go back to the student – he’s long since graduated but I had to go back and say I didn’t listen to you the first time. I should have.

Bonni: [00:25:59] This thing is amazing so Haiku Deck is an online web based tool that lets you build presentations. But back to our earlier point. We want our presentations to be much more visual than we typically see because that’s what’s going to help with retention for our students so we want to be focusing more on images that will help drive point drive our points home and very little text on the slide.

Bonni: [00:26:25] And the wonderful thing about Haiku Deck is how easy it is to find images and they are images that are already covered under the Creative Commons system and they automatically save the citation for the photograph to with it.

Bonni: [00:26:42] So you’re adhering to and modeling for your students under copyright law and so it’s just fabulous that you can do that. And then of course if they don’t have the picture that you want up there you can also upload your photos if you happened to be someone who’s on Facebook. You can connect it to Facebook if you want.

Bonni: [00:26:57] Connect it to Twitter. Connect it to Instagram. So you’ve got all your sources of photos there. I’m just listing a couple of the services. There’s actually a bunch you can hook it up with and then you can build charts in there easily and they’re gorgeous power points.

Bonni: [00:27:10] I’m saying I’m using the word PowerPoint but what they are slides which you can then display there within haiku deck it works just like a slide based tool you can hit play and save all your shows there. You can export it to PowerPoint or to a number of other formats so HaikuDeck is fabulous. I’d encourage people to check it out.

Bonni: [00:27:30] Dave what’s your Ed Tech tool?

Dave: [00:27:32] While it can I say something about that. First of all you know you mentioned copyright and we should do or do a show at some point on copyright in the classroom because I think that that’s something that you know there’s different rules about using things in a classroom than there is in the real world.

Dave: [00:27:51] And I think a lot of faculty never really have that dialogue with students about the differences and distinctions and I think there’s a lot to be said for having a dialogue with people. My tool is Pinboard and what Pinboard is is it as a link or it’s a link management system.

Dave: [00:28:10] So say you’re trying to find something online that you find of interest you may want to use for a class or for research down the road. You can save the link to Pinboard there’s another service that’s very similar to it called Delicious.

Dave: [00:28:23] In fact I think you may have mentioned in our previous show Bonni. What it is – is a service that just basically allows you to save links. Tag them and you can to the extent you want give other people access to your account to see what you’ve tags so any time that I am online researching something and I see an article that would be of value to students for a particular class or clients for a particular workshop or training, I will tag it for that topic or sometimes that particular class code. And then whenever I’m running that class next or are working with that client I’ll pull up that that class code or I’ll pull that topic and it gives me a great starting point for my research.

Dave: [00:29:02] The thing I like about Pinboard is that it will also archive if you pay a little bit of money I think it’s like 25 bucks a year. It’ll archive all of those articles as well so if the original article disappears off the web it still is in the database there.

Dave: [00:29:15] You can still get access to it so it’s a great way to organize your online reading and information and research and use it pretty much daily these days so we actually put a link in the show notes to my personal Pinboard accounts you can see what I’ve tagged up there and everything is publicly available.

Bonni: [00:29:32] I’m glad that you mentioned that about the classes too, Dave, because I’ll do that. I do the topics too so I’ve got one which I linked to already in the show notes on visual thinking but then I’ll oftentimes link it to the class number too so I’m going to be teaching a number of sections of our introduction to business class here for undergraduates in the fall.

Bonni: [00:29:49] So I have my delicious.com/Bonni208/BUS114 and when I go to start prepping that class thats in my check list of things to address and go and look and find inspiration there.

Dave: [00:30:02] It’s exactly the way I do it for my class too.

Dave: [00:30:05] It’s almost like you’re brilliant. You do it the same way I do.

Bonni: [00:30:07] We both must be. I’m thinking that must be what it is…

Dave: [00:30:10] The wonder years by the way.

Bonni: [00:30:12] Oh the wonder years.

Dave: [00:30:14] That was a great show.

Bonni: [00:30:16] Fred Savage by the way for anyone who’s wondering what we’re talking about. Fred Savage was on a great show called The Wonder Years. Thank you so much for listening today. We are just getting started with Teaching in Higher Ed and I would love to hear from you.

Dave: [00:30:28] With the podcast not the actual teaching… Been doing the teaching for a while.

Bonni: [00:30:32] Would love to hear from you on questions that you have on input that you have. You can find in the show notes all of the different ways to connect with us. We’re looking forward to doing a Q and A show coming up here in the future so we’d love to have some recorded or written questions from people that you have.

Dave: [00:30:48] And teachinginhighered.com/feedback for that right.

Bonni: [00:30:51] Yes.

Dave: [00:30:52] Thanks. See you soon.

Teaching in Higher Ed transcripts are created using a combination of an automated transcription service and human beings. This text likely will not represent the precise, word-for-word conversation that was had. The accuracy of the transcripts will vary. The authoritative record of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcasts is contained in the audio file.