Bonni: [00:00:00] Most of us have times in our teaching where we’ve been struck by the realization of just how much of life of teaching is out of our control. In today’s episode Dr. Lee Skallerup Bessette joins me to talk about how to deal with and manage when stuff gets out of control in our lives as well as how to address those situations when it happens to our students.

Production Credit: [00:00:23] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Bonni: [00:00:31] Welcome to this episode of Teaching in Higher Ed. This is the space where we explore the art and science of being more effective at facilitating learning. We also share ways to increase our personal productivity approaches so we can have more peace in our lives and be even more present for our students.

Bonni: [00:01:00] I’m excited today to get to have a conversation with Dr. Lee Skallerup Bessette. She is the faculty instructional designer at the Center for the Enhancement of Learning and Teaching at the University of Kentucky. She has two areas of expertise Digital Humanities and Digital Pedagogy at least in the realm of teaching and instruction. Lee, welcome to Teaching in Higher Ed.

Lee: [00:01:24] Hi Bonni. Thanks so much for having me.

Bonni: [00:01:26] Thanks for giving up part of your work day to contribute to this community. I want to say I absolutely love your blog that you do for Inside Higher Ed and for people listening. The show notes are going to be a teachinginhighered.com/61. I’m going to link to her blog writing in general and then also linked to some of the posts that have resonated by feel like you’re a kindred spirit I’m I’m just so excited to have you on the show today.

Lee: [00:01:51] Oh thank you.

Bonni: [00:01:52] Before we dive into our topic for the day I wondered if you would to spend a couple minutes talking to people who may not be as familiar with what the digital humanities are and then as if that’s not a hard enough question to attempt to define for us. You would also tackle digital pedagogy because I know that’s new for some people who are listening.

Lee: [00:02:11] The way I like to describe Digital humanities to people who really have never heard of it or don’t know. It’s this intersection between technology and what technology can help us do in the humanities in humanities research that we couldn’t do or haven’t been able to do otherwise.

Lee: [00:02:31] So one of the most common ones right now is Big Data distance reading but social networking and network mapping the things and visualizing the things that would take an entire career previously in history as well it’s about digitization archives and making also research primary documents more accessible and available in a scholarly and thoughtful way to larger and different audiences.

Lee: [00:03:05] There’s lots of different things mapping is another one of the big ones that takes place computational linguistics is considered part of digital humanities so is a really large and interesting and interdisciplinary field that really merges technology and humanities are now increasingly starting to branch off also into or towards media studies where we’re taking a humanistic approach to studying the tools that we use the digital tools that use interfaces video games and old time modal means of communications et cetera et cetera. So again it’s a lot a really vast area.

Bonni: [00:03:46] How about digital pedagogy.

Lee: [00:03:48] We have unprecedented access to tools to information to interfaces and to the question that digital pedagogy seeks to answer or to explore. So what what do we do with them how do we do it how do we do so in a critical pedagogically sound the way.

Lee: [00:04:07] I would say the difference with the term that most people hear use or perhaps are more familiar with it. Edtech right education technology or instructional technology. And that’s certainly part of what the interest in digital pedagogy is.

Lee: [00:04:21] But really to make a real craft lying of division that people will probably take me to task over is an educational attack Hosier special technology or kind of almost commercially based. That’s not to say that all of them are but what digital pedagogy seeks to do is just take these tools with the tools and say you know is this the best tool how could we use this tool how do we bend or break.

Lee: [00:04:48] That’s my big thing is making bending and breaking in terms of my approach to visual pedagogy. I decide to tweet that out. Last week I was doing a weeklong workshop on digital pedagogy. Our assignment to the students that we ourselves did as instructors was define digital pedagogy in 121 characters because we had to have a hashtag more or less in my my definition is making bending and breaking right.

Lee: [00:05:16] What can we make what can we do. What can we build luckily have our students build what can we bend. How can we bend these technologies and bend these tools or approaches to what we want to do and also maybe then that for your audience.

Lee: [00:05:34] Sometimes as an approach or technique that an ed tech tool affords to us it’s a move that we can easily bend for analog is right. So this is an opportunity to bend or pedagogy to think differently about OK how are we going to teach and in breaking is really just this idea of breaking them open and saying how do they work.

Lee: [00:05:55] Why do they work the way they do. And having students being you know going back to the making parts so that we’re not just mindlessly consuming them but we’re actually breaking the mold and understanding what makes them work. Because I think that that will be part of the learning process as well.

Bonni: [00:06:13] I realize that you may not remember and a lot’s happened but do you happen to remember the hashtags so I’ll put in the show notes if you do.

Lee: [00:06:20] Yes hilt2015.

Bonni: [00:06:23] Perfect. So that would be fun to see some of the other definitions too it’s all a link to a search where people can check out some of the other definitions people had for digital pedagogy although I’m sure there’s a lot else on that hashtag now that you mentioned and I saw it this past time when you guys were conducting it and there was lots of great exchanges of dialogue happening on Twitter.

Lee: [00:06:43] Well I can share some links with you as well to those specific assignments and the result of them. If I did it Storify. We made a google doc that had everything or a lot of the things in there are others so I can certainly share that with you and then it can be shared down the bottom.

Bonni: [00:06:59] Oh fabulous – that would be great. Yeah. So speaking of Twitter you are @readywriting on Twitter and that’s also the name of the blog that you write for Inside Higher Ed. Right before we get into the main topic for today I love to hear the how ready writing came about where that where that name came from.

Lee: [00:07:17] Well actually it came from… How long ago now? Six years now, I guess. Yeah my son is six. So six years ago be exactly six years ago. We have just moved from Florida to Kentucky. And I’ve given up the tenure track job so that my husband could take a better tenure track job at the time. I had two kids under the age of three.

Lee: [00:07:44] And I was alone in a small rural town with a 8 month old at home and so. I was really struggling with what I wanted to do and how I wanted to do it.

Lee: [00:07:58] And so I actually my husband at one point asked me and he said well what would you do if you do anything and I said well I’d have it online tutoring and writing program where I could develop something for it so that they can be college ready when they start freshman writing in the fall.

Lee: [00:08:19] And so I started a Web site. And the blog was the blog and Twitter handle were supposed to be there to help promote the services on the Web site. And they just grew in unexpected or maybe looking back expected directions whereas the business itself didn’t take off but the blog and the Twitter persona. It been really did. And so I guess that was who I was and sort of how I was branded. And so I just sort of stuck with it.

Lee: [00:08:56] A lot of people actually said well you don’t even teach writing anymore because that’s that was what I was teaching I taught a lot of freshman writing even though my Ph.D. is in literature you know and teach writing anymore. Why don’t you change your handle why don’t and you change your blogging. And I was I’m just sort of like that. It’s what it is. That’s how the name came to be.

Bonni: [00:09:15] How wonderful now that you get to take that passion that was originally there and amplify it so much more because imagine all the work that you do with faculty that you’re actually still doing that you’re just doing at times the nth degree. I don’t even know how to explain it. That’s wonderful it’s so fun when life has unexpected twists like that. And speaking.

Lee: [00:09:42] And it’s because of the blog and Twitter that I have a job now in faculty development because of my visibility and because of my willingness and ability to communicate about pedagogy in an accessible way and in many colleges and put me on the radar of a lot of people as you said because I was off the tenure track for a long time.

Lee: [00:10:03] And they said look if you’re interested in faculty development getting off the sort of non tenure track hamster wheel then we think could be really good at faculty development. And so you should take your experience and take your voice and and put that into it into this particular area. And I did and I’m really really grateful for that.

Bonni: [00:10:27] It’s wonderful when it can happen in that arena. And then of course I’m sure you’re also quite aware that people who are interested in publishing books regardless of what shape that book is going to take the publishers right now if you’re going to submit anything to a publisher they’re going to say how many followers do you have what kind of blog you do.

Bonni: [00:10:45] A lot of people have felt left behind and they talked to my husband and I go like this in five years for them and their experience since they published their first book the entire world changed and they were left very very behind so it’s fun when you’ve already built that.

Bonni: [00:10:57] And it can start to take you places you didn’t expect. It’s fabulous. I hear what you’re saying to that and I’ve read. Of course you talk about being off tenure track and we really still it’s just so surprising to me.

Bonni: [00:11:11] I know I have this bias too even though I want to think that I don’t but just assuming everyone out there is talking. We just ignore this whole content in fact I shouldn’t say we but a lot of a lot of us do ignore the reality of how much of our work force and how out of their control it feels and how they feel dependent on these institutions instead of having that kind of feeling of empowerment that must have been a good I guess a good transition for you to have that sense of oh I do have some power in this career direction that I’m taking.

Lee: [00:11:42] There is something really fun and subversive to me and I’m not a very subversive person. You know I’m trained as an academic and very well schools are obviously very good at following rules and all of that. But there is something like that was my moment of subversion was really that blog.

Lee: [00:12:02] And in talking about working out the tenure track is even earlier on as I said I had I had been in a tenure track position but it sort of had seen things go on and got so disillusioned by it all that you know I really you know even when I wasn’t a contingent faculty member those you know there’s a lot in those early early blog posts on my original blogspot blog that you know that that was probably the most versatile I’ve ever seen in my life.

Bonni: [00:12:35] Yeah, you found your voice. Tell me about a time in your life when something very out of control happened in the midst of teaching a course.

Lee: [00:12:47] Actually I don’t have to go that far but you know I’ve got two young kids and now they’re now my kids ages 8 and 6. You know, there are often things that happen on a one-off basis so you know there is one time where I actually had to move a class room to the next to place next to a room that had a couch in it when my daughter was sleeping because she was sick.

Lee: [00:13:12] And it ended up taking a four hour nap while I taught my classes in the room next to me because I didn’t I didn’t have an office where she could do that. So you know you make you make those things work to try to figure out but one of the biggest challenges that I had recently was last semester I was teaching full time that would have been a almost two years ago now.

Lee: [00:13:36] We had a really terrible winter and we lost so much time due to snow days but what was particularly challenging is this one class that I was teaching was in for a world class and I was trying to be very student centered in the students. You know they chose what we were reading and I wanted them to do alternatives to the essay.

Lee: [00:14:01] All this great stuff and it was moving along wonderfully until every day it seems or every day as a class we were on a two hour delay right because of the weather and it just so happened that that classes at 9:00 10:00 in the morning.

Lee: [00:14:16] And so the rest of my classes the rest of the day met except that and so there was a period of time where I don’t think I saw them for I think it was like two week to two and a half weeks and then you know you come back each other for two days and then or two classes and then the next week.

Lee: [00:14:34] It was possible that you would have all the classes cancel again. So it became this challenge for all of us really to figure out OK well how are we going to make this work. Now I’ve got to say that I didn’t necessarily do the best job where I was despite my app on my own pedagogies was still sort of wedded to this idea of coverage.

Lee: [00:15:03] And so rather than give up a lot of the classes I mean that were time there was to be spent thinking about and brainstorming with the students and trying to help them come up with their un-essay ideas. And instead of giving up some of the some of the things that we were reading or had to cover, which inevitably I justified at the time saying, “Well, the students chose it.”

Lee: [00:15:26] So I don’t want to arbitrarily take away the student’s choice. But at the same time when they handed in their assignments or projects they were to my mind disappointing but it was because I didn’t give them as much guidance or as much space to experiment.

Lee: [00:15:47] And they themselves probably felt really overwhelmed by it too because again they have lost so much bought every day in and felt really really rushed. So when I would do differently than take my own advice that I’ve given others and I know it’s very difficult to take is you know you’ve got to let go sometimes some of the coverage in order to really accomplish the learning goals that you want to go you want to do.

Bonni: [00:16:15] How do you think about the idea of having balance in your life as a teaching professional.

Lee: [00:16:25] I guess it changes at the age of me or maybe my kids age early phase. For me it’s a double negotiation because again where my husband is also an academic. He just got tenure.

Lee: [00:16:42] And so at a certain point we had to think about that and so leading up to his tenure there was perhaps less balance there in terms of how we divided labour how we viewed our priorities because you know being in higher education a priority is what you have to get tenure.

Lee: [00:16:59] There are certain things that you just have to do this year. And so being off the tenure track there are certain things I don’t have for those sort of fell by the wayside or there were certain responsibilities and maybe I took more on with the kids because of because of that.

Lee: [00:17:18] And now that he has tenure that’s sort of switching around this year and so again it’s a constant negotiation. Blogging was actually one of the ways that I sought to maintain some sort of balance where it was something that I did for me, as opposed to something that belonged to my employer, belonged to my family or belonged to anyone else – or my students or whatever it is.

Lee: [00:17:43] It was like this is something that is mine and only mine and I’m doing it for me. And eventually my career but certainly it was something I was doing for myself for my own sanity and it’s very interesting that I made forward myself to a certain degree and a lot of people always say that to me more work I guess that it was the kind of work I wanted to be doing.

Bonni: [00:18:07] That resonates so much with me. And I mean my blog. I blog. My goal is to blog once a week in most weeks I hit that with the exception of a few during the summer but the podcast is really what you’re talking about emerges.

Bonni: [00:18:22] Because it fuels me throughout the entire year when maybe my little tiny interactions that I have with other people on my campus seem so small and can sometimes be where I don’t necessarily always find those connections with people with the same kind of passion for bringing something new and different into their teaching.

Bonni: [00:18:43] Boy all you have to do is get on Twitter all you have to do is start having conversations with people like you to bring that energy back and say I’m not alone in all of this. That’s such a wonderful thing that you were able to do.

Lee: [00:18:54] Yeah. Oh and there’s the I’m not alone in all of this was so important because I I felt tremendously alone in it. And there’s one thing that I keep finding over and over again and despite some of the ugliness on social media that is clearly there. I can’t quit. And I can’t stop advocating and recommending it to other people because it’s like for me the good far outweighs the bad.

Bonni: [00:19:22] What are some of the most common ways you saw your students having their lives become out of control as you were teaching.

Lee: [00:19:29] I’ve taught students at our what institutions I’ve taught students at a lot of nontraditional institutions I’ve taught at a primarily Hispanic serving institution at a historically black college and at a rural at a rural state institution.

Lee: [00:19:46] One of the poorest areas of the country and one of the things that I have noticed and is the support group and how much support the students have right how much can they afford to take on mentally financially physically and who’s there to help pick them up and encourage them. I had one student and I I’ll never forget this.

Lee: [00:20:14] All the way back at the University of Alberta where I did my Ph.D. which is a large one Canadian one institution and she came to me and apologized for the poor performance in the class which really wasn’t that bad.

Lee: [00:20:27] And she found out that her roommate one of her roommates had stolen both her and the other roommates identities and gotten a driver’s license and passports and taken out bank accounts. And all these kinds of things on their identification.

Lee: [00:20:46] And she was only coming to tell me at the end of the semester or once the grades had gone and I was like I really wish you had you know said something she sort of shrugged her shoulders and said no you know got through it. And it was a pain where we got police reports out.

Lee: [00:21:02] My family members helped her navigate the what needed to be done and she felt pretty confident and was just sort of informing me after the fact and saying I hope that you don’t think you know that you don’t think poorly of because of it and I was just like oh my goodness this is huge. It never occurred to her to come and talk to me because she had this system where she was deported. Now in other cases there’s just very little support that these students have.

Lee: [00:21:34] There’s no one to help them navigate their families had never gone to college they don’t know how to navigate it. Legal systems and all that and so when things go wrong they go really wrong. And so we’re talking about students whose family is getting incarcerated who the students themselves are incarcerated.

Lee: [00:21:53] You know they’ve family illnesses where you know they are they are then expected to become the primary breadwinner for their family or they’re supporting already their own families. You know for us the computer breaks and we’re sort of like oh well you know I’ll get you know some students are like I’ll just get my mom or I’ll put it on my credit card.

Lee: [00:22:15] These students they had to borrow money to begin with. We got these computers and it back and people were expecting it. And I worked with students whose life has just gotten in the way you know standing in the way really building walls as a way of being able to be successful students.

Bonni: [00:22:32] Were there things that you did to attempt to navigate that tricky balance between you. There’s just not enough capacity in you to support the way you want to and how to decide when to reach out more than you might in other cases.

Bonni: [00:22:49] How did you navigate that? I’m sure I’m sure you wanted to help. So how do you navigate because you can’t help them all. You can’t help them as much as you probably wish you could.

Lee: [00:22:58] I got really good at one point I asked… It was actually developmental writing for the most vulnerable students in the waterways of the city show that if you have to do medial with all of that pop that you know much much much more likely not to complete or persist.

Lee: [00:23:15] And so one of the assignments I had them do was create a list of resources to research the resources that were available to them on campus in a community and online for when they may have it you know had any kind of problem so counseling financial aid. One of the students we talked and made sure that we knew about the gay and lesbian Support Center.

Lee: [00:23:44] And you know that was available on campus. A lot of them sound charity food banks in the community. So really is an opportunity to be able to learn the resources that are available to them that are there to try and help that that might not be efficient.

Lee: [00:23:59] But at the very least to be able to preliminarily help them perhaps bridge that gap you know letting them know where the computer lab is were on campus letting them know where counseling was all those kinds of things.

Lee: [00:24:13] So really you know I saw my role as as the listening right so that they felt heard because in a lot of ways they didn’t feel heard and to making sure that they felt heard and then helping them to guide them to a place where they could be more effective with the help that in that sort of way and other cases. There wasn’t even an ask for help. It was just they didn’t expect. They didn’t expect it. They were just letting me know. Right. Like you know I’ve got to go to jail.

Lee: [00:24:49] It’s like OK. Good luck with that. You know not to be flip or whatever, but they’re not asking for help. You know they may or may not know what to do. But at the same time with a lot of these students they are very proud and they have learned to be somewhat independent throughout their lives.

Lee: [00:25:10] And so they’re telling you the like you know but it comes with zero expectation that you’re going to be able to do anything about it. Which is also sad.

Bonni: [00:25:20] Yeah.

Lee: [00:25:21] And I think that there’s also a very very cultural out of it too around what’s expected of the children and what’s expected of the community where you know I have students who were encouraged by their families that like great aunt so-and-so was dying and they were expected to be at the bedside with the entire family for however long it took for her to pass.

Bonni: [00:25:52] That’s really all that’s so true. And that’s where I have a downside because I forget about that sometimes so sometimes I’m thinking like let’s get resilient. You know you’re going to have to move on and not realizing those cultural ties with family because that’s not how it was for me growing up and I forget that. Thank you for that reminder.

Lee: [00:26:12] And that was a wakeup call for me too as my own when my own grandfather passed away suddenly. Not that long ago a couple of years ago. Now you know we were in the process that was October just before we moved here.

Lee: [00:26:26] And you know it was you know it was. Don’t worry granddad won’t understand. Of course he can’t make it. You got you know a sixth you got a seven month old and a 2 year old and you’re trying to move across the country it’s fine. He would totally understand right.

Lee: [00:26:44] In that sort of way where there was you know it would have been nice had our tone but that I couldn’t comment it was it was like that. It’s totally understandable that you didn’t come in and so to experience this different kind of and stay out of the good cultural practice in a lot of ways that’s different.

Lee: [00:27:05] And so it was really it was really interesting and then in other cases I had students who had children that they had left behind like they had traveled and so they had left behind with their mother or their grandmother or someone so that they would still have the opportunity to come and go to college.

Lee: [00:27:31] And so that was you know that was other another eye opening experience where it was like they’d have to miss us because you know they didn’t necessarily know the proper paperwork or the proper procedures so that their kids could get medical care while they were away at college rates just like normal medical care.

Lee: [00:27:47] Not even like urgent care is like oh the kids got a bit of a cold and we got to go to the doctor. Well you know not signing the proper paperwork to be able to have Grandma grandma do that then that becomes something that they’re constantly having to go home even though they’re trying to make that effort.

Lee: [00:28:03] But it’s also I could tell mentally taxing for a lot of these students male and female who had who had left behind children so that they could have an opportunity for her postsecondary education and getting that degree.

Lee: [00:28:20] And so again something that that for me was I don’t want to say on a man who had entered in my head stay right where this is. This was something that they were trying to do and trying very hard to do but in extraordinarily difficult circumstances.

Bonni: [00:28:38] As we finish off this part of the show and move into recommendations. What’s your overall advice to us as we’re going throughout our semesters and dealing with the out of control and and still trying to be great teachers.

Lee: [00:28:51] I would say is one of the things is this is the same advice I would give in myself is that sometimes it’s ok to let go of some of the content and that and I know that isn’t easy for everyone. There’s a lot of these particular introductory level courses in various disciplines where content is still or coppered is still the king. And we have to do all these things and we’ve got to be able to because they can’t do them then they can’t pass or they will not be able to get to the next level et cetera et cetera.

Lee: [00:29:27] But you know that to remember that the students are you know human beings and that you you are are a human being and that is Cathy Davidson and I guess this might be my recommendation. Cathy Davidson and I can share this one. OK if I can find out what it called it she calls Handicapped by Being Underimpaired: Teaching with Equality at the Core. And so Cathy Davidson she is the co-founder HASTAC.

Lee: [00:30:00] She was teaching at Duke. Now she’s that CUNY and she works at the Future Initiative… she wrote. Now you see it which was quite formative for me in my pedagogy and she got very very very very ill unexpectedly and she’s fine now. That was a very long recovery process for her.

Lee: [00:30:20] And so she blogged about this idea of as academic. We assume that everyone is as capable, as driven, as smart… as whatever as we are and when they’re not then you know well then that’s their problem not mine. Right?

Lee: [00:30:41] And this is her argument in a nutshell but that we need to have in order if we want to teach with equity. After all she says we have to keep in mind these things we have to keep in mind that these students are not us and they don’t want to be hit and perhaps tend not to be.

Lee: [00:31:03] But that does not mean that they are failures or that they should fail or that they are destined for failure. In a lot of a lot of ways. So that’s all. I’ve often argued or said in other places I don’t know if I ever said on my blog what I said it in other in other venues or at least privately to friends that perhaps the worst people to teach writing are are the best writers writing always can easily to me.

Lee: [00:31:35] And so then to teach writing I couldn’t understand why people couldn’t get writing because I’m just like all the easy you just write. It’s like I don’t understand. Same thing with live blogging and they like how you blog so much like I don’t know how to do it.

Lee: [00:31:47] You know really having it is something that I had to learn as I was teaching writing a really developmental writing. It’s just you know how do I help things succeed and something that I have always been successful at with with little effort.

Bonni: [00:32:07] Thanks for suggesting that Cathy Davidson article that sounds like a really good one and I’ll certainly link to that in the recommendations section I’m sure I can probably find it. And she was actually back on the episode 28 and I know we get new listeners to the show every week so people that would be a really good one to go back and listen to if you’re kind of piecemealing through the old episodes she was a wonderful guest and had some really great things to say.

Lee: [00:32:29] I have no doubt.

Bonni: [00:32:30] Teachinginhighered.com/28. If people want to go back and listen I’m getting e-mails a lot from people saying I just started listening you know where do I start. And I would be a great place to do it. So thanks.

Bonni: [00:32:40] And then mark my recommendation actually comes from you too and that was that you were tweeting back and forth with a woman named Andrea Rehn And I’m not sure I’m pronouncing it correctly. She’s at twitter @profrehn and I’ll put a link to her Twitter handle in the show notes.

Bonni: [00:32:57] She is collecting a list of critical digital pedagogy tools and resources and I’ll put a link to that. And I just went there a couple of times it’s growing every day because people are contributing to it.

Bonni: [00:33:09] And what a wonderful way. If your back to your original talk with us about what digital pedagogy is just to get started with some resources something that’s a good one to link back to your earlier comments.

Bonni: [00:33:20] Well I want to thank you so much for being on the show and as we close out what’s one last piece of advice for us on starting actually cause a lot of us will be starting our school year soon. What do we want to be thinking about as the new year starts.

Lee: [00:33:32] Stay hopeful be optimistic. And give your students the benefit of the doubt rgiht from the start.

Bonni: [00:33:38] I love it. Thank you so much for being on Teaching in Higher Ed.

Lee: [00:33:41] Thank you. I really enjoyed it.

Bonni: [00:33:45] Thanks once again to Lee for being on the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast. It was great to have this conversation with you and I look forward to it continuing on Twitter and beyond. If you have never raided or reviewed the teaching and higher ed podcast I’d highly encourage you to do so. It helps us to help others discover the show and expand the community.

Bonni: [00:34:05] And also if you have yet to subscribe to the weekly emails that’ll get you all the show notes with links that we talk about throughout the show and combined a an article or productivity article and again just one e-mail try to provide high value for you and I’m look forward to having continued conversations at teachinginhighered.com/feedback.

Bonni: [00:34:26] If you want to subscribe that’s teachinginhighered.com/subscribe. Thanks so much for listening and I’ll see you next time.

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