Bonni: [00:00:00] Today on episode number 139 of the Teaching in the Higher Ed podcast Stephanie Lancaster shares ways to effectively de-brief with our students.

Production Credit: [00:00:13] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Bonni: [00:00:22] Welcome to this episode of Teaching in Higher Ed. I’m Bonni Stachowiak and this is the space where we explore the art and science of being more effective at facilitating learning. We also share ways to increase our personal productivity so we can have more peace in our lives and be even more present for our students.

Bonni: [00:00:50] Today I welcome to the show Stephanie Lancaster. She’s an assistant professor in the department of occupational therapy at the University of Tennessee Health Science Center in Memphis, Tennessee. Before that she was an occupational therapist providing clinical services for over 25 years.

Bonni: [00:01:11] She holds a specialty certification as an assistive technology provider through the rehabilitation engineering and Assistive Technology Society of North America and as a certified agene in place specialist through the National Association of Homebuilders. Stephanie is currently pursuing an EDD in instructional and curriculum leadership with a concentration in instructional design technology through the University of Memphis.

Bonni: [00:01:40] Stephanie is also a self-described podcast, TED talk, and non fiction junkie and a lifelong learner with a strong commitment to providing growth in students other faculty members clinicians and other stakeholders through establishing connection and continued learning through sharing of narrative accounts active reflection and authentic exchanges. Stephanie, welcome to Teaching in Higher Ed.

Stephanie: [00:02:07] Thank you so much for having me.

Bonni: [00:02:08] I am so excited that you’re here because not only are you a guest with an important topic for us today of de-briefing But you’ve been listening to the show for a while now.

Stephanie: [00:02:20] I have and to tell you the truth. I almost always listen to each episode multiple times that that’s how much I get out of the guests and the discussion is dialogue that happened on each episode.

Bonni: [00:02:33] It’s so fun to talk to someone who’s been listening to as many episodes as you have and as long as you have because it’s I feel like we’ve been having a conversation because we’ve been e-mailing and you’re just a great resource. Yeah and I was telling you we have not had too many people from health care that discipline before on the show.

Bonni: [00:02:50] And I’m just so pleased to have you here. As far as that goes to. I did obviously just read your bio but I’m kind of curious what do we not find out about you in your bio that we should know about you before we start diving into today’s topic.

Stephanie: [00:03:06] Well I would say the one thing is maybe my reasons for moving from clinical practice as an occupational therapist to academics with my dad about three and a half years ago now. And the story behind that I think maybe some people just decide to change jobs or see a job opening or something. But mine was a little more dramatic and a lot more personal. Six years ago my father had a catastrophic diagnosis. He was diagnosed with brain cancer and was very active and in a very healthy up until that struck.

Stephanie: [00:03:45] And overnight we lost a lot of abilities. And my mom knew that a lot of help with him and he went through some different treatments but unfortunately they were not successful and he passed away 10 weeks later. And during that time as the health care provider I wanted to be there with him and with my parents they lived about three hours away from me but I took time off work and was there in our house and in the hospital with him a lot.

Stephanie: [00:04:13] And for a three week period of those 10 weeks from the diagnosis till the time he died he was in a rehab facility where there were people in my same profession working there. And what happened that was both personally and professionally profoundly changing for me is that I saw some not very good quality of care and there were things that happened that could have been done a lot differently a lot better and it would have helped them and my family more in our specific case.

Stephanie: [00:04:46] And I think it was just his diagnosis was pretty rare. And the fact that he was terminal was something that really kind of blew the rehab professionals minds. They really are used to dealing with people with joint replacements strokes and heart conditions and things like that that people get at least somewhat if not fully better for them in their recovery.

Stephanie: [00:05:08] But as a result of that I started thinking about moving into a teaching career so that I could have an impact hopefully on future health care providers and specifically occupational therapists and so it took me a couple of years but I worked my way into that position and I happened to have one come open in my hometown of Memphis.

Stephanie: [00:05:33] And since then I have earned a master’s degree and now I’m working on my doctorate in instructional design and technology and am so thrilled that it’s worked out and really love my job even more than I thought I ever could because I really kind of loved it as it was but it’s just gotten better. It’s kind of a good outcome.

Bonni: [00:05:56] Oh yeah I always love stories like that where it’s just there’s nothing good about your story of what happened to your dad I mean that’s just a heartbreaking and painful story but it is such a beautiful thing in life when good can come from bad.

Stephanie: [00:06:09] Yes I think so for sure. And I have to you know it is a comfort to me and my family when when I tell them you know I think these students really get it or they to come back and tell me heartwarming stories after they graduate about how they really are connecting with their patients and they realize their job doesn’t end at the end of a therapy session that you know they have resources and referral to do in addition to just the direct treatment and intervention and you know that that really is their job too and it is our job to connect and to provide what our patients and their families need within our community. I hope I’m getting that message across to one hundred percent of the students that I teach.

Bonni: [00:06:49] Do you share that story ever with your students. Are they aware of that.

Stephanie: [00:06:53] I do. The way I’ve come to present it to them is one of the key classes that teach is on occupational therapy with people with neurological conditions. And I actually have sort of a story written out in blog format and I haven’t read it but it doesn’t identify that it’s mine until the end of it. And so they read it thinking it’s you know almost kind of seem like you know it’s a fictional story and then they get to the end of it and say they know me pretty well and many of them make comments that they had no idea that it was my story until they get to it. And then we study the you know disease process and that intervention in cases of other similar or catastrophic illnesses be done differently.

Bonni: [00:07:41] It’s wonderful that so many themes that have come out and I know you know this already is deafening because you listen so much but just the vulnerability that is required to be a good teacher. And I celebrate that you’re able to do that because I’m sure people don’t always know how to handle other people’s pain and sometimes I’m sure you’ve probably heard people say or do insensitive things around us I mean like you couldn’t you already mentioned that.

Bonni: [00:08:06] I mean just in terms of your father’s care while he was in his last year of his life I mean it’s just tough but that you could have the courage and the confidence knowing what a difference it makes when we do allow ourselves to be vulnerable like that with our students. And one other thing about your story in the way that you have chosen to make some good from such a painful experience is that your stories about your father and the painful things that you went through are clearly related to the classes that you’re teaching you’re not asking your students to be your therapist or that type of thing but just demonstrating. You know that’s really your vision and your mission for your teaching.

Stephanie: [00:08:43] Yes it is very clarifying when you come into a big big life change like that in the learning process about grief was very heavy for me and I try to pass that on on and you know I know you’ve done some episodes that addressed that topic and I really take this to heart and think that that’s a role of any educator is to be there you know for our students to talk to and lean on or just to be aware in times of need.

Bonni: [00:09:12] I totally did one episode that comes to mind was with my friend Carrie Moore and in her case she really was like my therapist. And then I found out from the Teaching in Higher Ed Slack channel that I wasn’t the only person interested in some of these stuff.

Bonni: [00:09:26] So when I said you know I was just going to lunch we could actually record our conversation and share it with other people yeah it’s just so it’s tough but it’s so nice when you realize there are you know whole communities of people out there who have been through similar things and can just you know we can just lift each other up when we need to.

Stephanie: [00:09:43] Yes yes.

Bonni: [00:09:45] Well tell me a little bit how did you first get interested in the topic of de-briefing and its importance.

Stephanie: [00:09:53] Well it really happened not long after I had moved over to academia. You know I’d heard a lot about reflection and that kind of thing in fact I remember probably 10 years ago a friend of mine that I was working with had finished grad school and she told me that her advisor when she realized she was going to actually graduate. Her advisor asked her to identify in a nutshell what she’d learned from that two or three year program and she said the thing that came to mind was the importance of reading forward in a book and at the time I thought that a little bit not a thought how about being so important but at Talya and then I have learned that myself and I you know really kind of eat my words on that.

Stephanie: [00:10:39] So when I finished my masters I used that same reflection prompt for myself. What was that in a nutshell. What have I learned in this two and a half years. And I realized that for me it was the power of reflection and learned teaching and learning. And so I kind of got me started thinking about what we can do as educators what I can do in this setting as a health care educator to enhance the reflection and that led me to the topic of de-briefing. I started reading and trying to learn more about it. And one thing I came across that I thought was a little bit funny is the Webster’s dictionary definition is decreasing is questions asked by someone typically a soldier or a guy about completed mission or undertake.

Stephanie: [00:11:25] And I thought that was funny because we know that isn’t our contact that you get a little bit you know it’s a little bit in line from there I’ve come to learn about it more as a process of strategically examining and analyzing what happened after the completion of an event or an activity in the context of learning. And so that’s a little better than the soldiers by saying you.

Bonni: [00:11:52] Kind it depends on your taste.

Stephanie: [00:11:55] That’s true.

Bonni: [00:11:58] I’m kind of intrigued by this connection. I would never have predicted that at all. That gives us a context I don’t have anything to do with. But yeah that’s so fascinating.

Stephanie: [00:12:07] It it sometimes can feel like going into a war. I think so. It’s a debriefing session is if there’s some you know hostility or a lot of emotion floating around in the room in the doorway at first really started doing the briefing. And in here in healthcare and we have a lot of what we call clinical simulation encounters and those can range from very low tech things like let’s act out between ourselves like I’m going to pretend like I’m a patient.

Stephanie: [00:12:36] And the students have to interview me like they would have a real patient or you know practice transferring me from the wheelchair to the hospital bed. And you know they do that all on each other and instructors first and then the next step from that is we actually hire patient actors to come in and we have some simulation rooms here on campus that are set up the hospital rooms and and little apartments that have some accessibility things built in.

Stephanie: [00:13:03] And we actually have them run through scenarios with those actors. And so we found out about that. And one of my coworkers and I and we decided to put our students through that process with the actor for the first time. And when we knew that there should be some kind of reflection or de-briefing piece but not knowing any better we just had after they had an encounter with the pretend patient we had them write two or three paragraphs reflection and you know about what they learned what they had taken away from it. You know that kind of general reflection and no that was good. We did learn some things that we didn’t know and I think it helped them sort of process what had happened.

Stephanie: [00:13:49] But it was you know the paper wasn’t due for a day or two after the event and then it took us a couple days to grade it and get the feedback and half of the lot. When I get feedback in a digital format or even writing it on the paper I’m handing it to each student. I’m not real sure they read it.

Stephanie: [00:14:08] I think they look at the grade and they’re like I’m happy with my 98 or my 95 or I’m going to argue this 92 or whatever it is that you know know that they really read it or thought about it a lot and they that was kind of the end of that. No I felt like there’s still something lacking.

Stephanie: [00:14:28] So that moved me in even more research and lots of reading and I have to I know you’ve had a nurse educator on the show before and I have to give a shout out to the profession of nursing because they are leagues ahead of other health care on national in the simulation and de-briefing research and most of what I’ve learned about the briefing has come from the literature from nursing.

Bonni: [00:14:53] Oh interesting.

Stephanie: [00:14:54] And yes it really comes from medicine but most most from nursing and so one thing in my research that I have come across is a technique really an updated method that’s called a 3D model of the briefing and it comes from an article that’s called the 3D model of de-briefing defusing, discovering, and deepening that was published in 2011 and it really talks about that as those three stages of de-briefing that there actually is actually book ended by two other stages. One that’s called the pre-briefing state.

Stephanie: [00:15:36] And so in that one. And that actually happens after the activity or the encounter. Or it could even be Africa a test or an exam or a presentation or project that students have done. And so in the pre-briefing which can just take up a few minutes the instructor tells the students what to expect and what is expected expected of them in the briefing and then puts them at ease about how if any scoring is going to be done if any participation points are going to be again or if they have to say something or if they could be more listeners lurkers on the side. So that’s what happens in the pre-briefing that then they move into the defusing.

Stephanie: [00:16:22] And that is to promote meaningful discussion and really kind of uncover key points in the article it talked about it almost as doing it needs analysis which I think is an interesting way to look at it. So you go into it doing an investigation by asking students how they who honor the activity how they felt during it and how they feel now how they saw their own performance what they thought they could have done better or differently and really try to help them relate to others as coach experiencers is the term used by those authors. And so it kind of puts people at ease somebody says. I mean I was so nervous. I didn’t sleep the night before.

Stephanie: [00:17:10] You know I had to stay up all night proofreading the paper working on my PowerPoint. And then other people will start chime in and say I need to honor and I look like a zombie in the presentation because I didn’t sleep or you know my computer crash and had to start over and some of the oh I hate it when that happens it’s really kind of creates a mentality of we’re in this together you’re not alone even though you might have felt like you were.

Bonni: [00:17:35] Yeah yeah.

Stephanie: [00:17:36] So the the next big stage is discovering and that’s when the instructor really tries to facilitate reflective observation and and the easiest way I found to do that is to identify something that happened or maybe that I thought was going to happen and it didn’t happen in the activity and then ask them why they did that or didn’t do that. Or was there something else they would consider doing and why did they make the choice and give an example of that.

Stephanie: [00:18:10] In a recent clinical simulation we did. We had a an actor that was playing the part of a patient who’d had a knee replacement and he was sitting in a chair beside a pretend hospital bed and each student had to go in and ask them questions. And one of the things they also had to do was to get the patient to write something on the piece of paper. And so the the other. Another instructor and I are watching on like a CCTV in another room and we saw several students who just tended to pretend patient paper and then a pencil but they didn’t have anything to write on. There was a rolling table right next to them. They thought would push over and adjust and then used and they didn’t.

Stephanie: [00:18:54] And we just we were just really shocked and so in the de-brief which we really now strive to conduct immediately after like even if we did the activity in the morning and we’ll have them come back that afternoon or the next morning you know as soon as we can get them back in the classroom together we do that debriefing and so we ask them why.

Stephanie: [00:19:17] Why did you did you think there was any other option besides just handing him that. And they said well you know we found a rolling table and we considered moving it over but you don’t talk about physical barriers and how those represent you know the US versus them. There was a power struggle between the professional you’re the Asian and we we didn’t want to have that happen with the man that we did. We really didn’t lose the rolling tray and that made perfect sense.

Bonni: [00:19:47] Oh yeah and then you can see how your teaching needs to be slightly modified to accommodate for things like that. I never would have discovered that if you had gone through the discovery race.

Stephanie: [00:19:59] It was a lightbulb moment there. And so we we got quite a nice dialogue going between the students about well what Which was better are you know would you. Are there some reasons she would do it if you had known the patient better would you have done it or should you at least have given him a choice. You know what else could have been done.

Stephanie: [00:20:21] And so it was very rich and quite a learning experience for us as well. The next thing on the model of 3D is the deepening faith. And that really is to help students figure out what they have learned or what they has changed and not them or the way they do things that they can take moving forward. So in a clinical situation it would be. What can they learn from this that they can use in the clinic or in a hospital.

Stephanie: [00:20:51] But in a test they in a business class that you know could be. What did you take away that you’re going to remember in an interview that we just had a mock interview or what’s your big takeaway in that. How does that connect to what you’re going to be doing in the real world. And that’s really the goal of that.

Stephanie: [00:21:09] And then the very last kind of book end of that is to wrap up and it’s still there. The authors recommend that the instructor ends with an opportunity for the learners each to learn or to summarize what has happened in the de-briefing. And when I read it it really reminds me of Stephen Brookfield’s work in his 2006 Skillful Teacher and I know you’ve had him on the show too and he says what assumptions have you held.

Stephanie: [00:21:40] Did you hold before the experience that were clarified or confirmed. Did you become aware of any assumptions that you didn’t know you had or what new perspective did you discover. It’s very similar to that thought process that you try to pull out some introspection and reflection from each student that relates to the decreasing section rather than the actual encounter or activity. And so that’s the 3-D model is pretty simple but it’s a much more structured than I think we tend to do in just a general de-brief.

Bonni: [00:22:16] One of the themes that I hear you saying Stephanie through all of this that really resonated with me is that this process of course is benefiting the students and a sense of metacognition thinking about our learning. But also I hear so much benefits for our own metacognition as teachers. And how much we can learn yes process.

Stephanie: [00:22:37] Yes for sure. It’s you know I’ve I’ve heard it said that that what really needs to happen in a good debriefing session is both instructive and constructive and I think that’s for the teacher the educator as well as the learners. So we’re all learners in that sense.

Bonni: [00:22:58] I also know that this is not all as easy as it sounds so it’s you share with us some of the challenges that we might encounter as we started to put our own practice of these 3D modeling of de-briefing together and some of the tips you have to avoid them more or to at least lessen them.

Stephanie: [00:23:16] I would say probably the biggest challenge that I have come across is that at least my students tend to want to talk just to me to have a dialogue with just the person in the front of the room. And even in a session like this where it’s mostly me asking questions or saying what questions did you have and how could your person next to you think about that. I’ll tend to say how did everybody feel going into the into the activity and they want to talk straight to me and so I try to make it really clear to them in the prebreathe.

Stephanie: [00:23:52] Really what I want them to do is to talk to each other. Peer to Peer engagement is really my goal there. I want to be more of a data collector or an observer and I’m doing kind of that needs assessment and you know with occasional prompts or questions or comments there. But my goal really is for them to talk amongst themselves because I think kind of at first it’s kind of like I think their share format with that but it’s hard for them to do that they’re just so used to answering a question directly to the instructor that it is hard for them to break that.

Stephanie: [00:24:31] And the other thing and this is a long embedded habit too is they are very worried about their great and they want to know you know and most the time on simulations or activities like this when there’s a heavy de-briefing component. It’s honestly I put it in as a pass or fail or you know complete or incomplete.

Stephanie: [00:24:53] And the only way you would be incomplete is if we didn’t or you really did not participate or you were tendering your group or the people around you. So that and that really never happened. It’s pretty much a freebie and I try to tell them that but they are still very focused on the greater or is this going to be on the top of thing.

Bonni: [00:25:15] Yeah.

Stephanie: [00:25:15] So that addressing that emotion and not just I’m nervous about doing this activity or presentation or you know being filmed with a patient actor. It’s the emotion about grades.

Bonni: [00:25:28] It sounds like the way that you’ve structured it has really lessened that by having it as a pass fail and a low stakes type of assignment type type of thing that that’s probably helped that a lot.

Stephanie: [00:25:40] Yeah and one other thing that I sort of stumbled upon that help that is to really consider and try to have some control over the environment sort of setting the scene for the de-briefing. I found that the importance of that setting is is a big one. And if it’s a traditional classroom where I’m at the front and they’re all in rows facing me they don’t dialogue with each other or even think or reflect as much.

Stephanie: [00:26:09] They they watch me and that’s really not what I want them to do. In this case though if I can I will try to make this happen in a room with you know tables instead of desks or at least move things around where people are in a circle or in you know groups not just facing the same direction where I’m standing in the back CANTLIN insulated. I’ll move to the side of the room or the back of the room or you know something like that as best I can to try to shake things up a little bit.

Bonni: [00:26:41] Well this is a wonderful process and I’m so glad that you introduced it to us. We have not as you know discussed de-briefing as a formal process before on the show but of course we’ve talked about related topics like de-briefing and also leading discussions and you mentioned Stephen Brookfield he’s been on the show twice now. I’ll link to the show notes for people who would like additional follow up on related topics he was on episode 15 talking about discussion as a way of teaching and he also has a book on that too that I’ll put on in the show notes.

Bonni: [00:27:13] And then you mentioned the Skillful Teacher which it sounds like you had read the 2006. I did not read it until his 2000. It’s either 16 or 15 years and I’ll go and I’ll look it up. But oh what a wonderful book. Can I understand that between the 2006 and the 2015 16 whatever it was he included chapters in there about race and gender and just some other aspects of doing really good. It’s I mean I’m sure it was great in 2006. He’s a wonderful writer.

Stephanie: [00:27:43] Yes I have several of his books but I don’t know that I have the updated one. Definitely have to put that on my list.

Bonni: [00:27:49] Yeah I think it’s great so I’ll link to those episodes where he was on talking about the Skillful Teacher and discussion and then also to his books if anybody wants to check them out.

Bonni: [00:27:57] And this is actually a time when you and I get to share our recommendations for the show and I was cracking up because I sometimes I don’t get to make the recommendations or figure out what I’m going to do until you know five minutes before I call the person and other times I’ll think of something so I’ll put it in in advance and I had put this in in advance and it just happens to fit with your profession.

Bonni: [00:28:19] So I have two health related apps that I have been enjoying and one of them is a habit building app called Productive the Productive app and it’s just a visual way and giving the little nudges through reminders and notifications to remind you to do what you’ve said is important to you. I only have one habit set up in it right now and that is just stretching I’m trying to be better about stretching on a daily basis. And it is just one of those that was easy to set up. It’s easy to see how I’m doing. And it doesn’t pester me too much. There are other apps that do a better job if you want lots of Pesta but very customizable. I just think it’s a delightful app and one of the things that really works well for me in life is to become more aware of things and one of the ways I can become more aware is just to see visually how you doing on this on this particular habit and related to that is I do have an apple watch like I’ve mentioned previously on shows and there.

Bonni: [00:29:21] They’re built in tools from Apple are you they’re OK you can see reports of how you’ve done in the last month cetera. But but it doesn’t do as great of a job as the other app I’m going to recommend called Activity Plus Plus it’s the Activity Plus Plus app and I’ll put a link to that in the show notes. And it just takes it to a whole nother level it’s still it talks to your Apple watch so you don’t have to do any additional tracking.

Bonni: [00:29:46] But it’ll just report out to you how you’re doing it for anyone not aware it’s tracking things like cardio exercise and you try to close that loop by having at least 30 minutes a day of cardio and then you set your own calorie burn goal for every day. How many calories you’re going to burn. Can you close that loop every day. And then we know that sitting is not doing us any favors. So if you sit too long it’ll remind you hey you haven’t gotten up yet this hour go walk around for a minute. And so that’s 12 hours they want you to be out of your chair for at least a minute in the 12 hours. And so those are the loops that it’ll track if you are using that to track your fitness and this Activity Plus Plus app is just a nice companion to the built in ones from Apple.

Stephanie: [00:30:31] Sounds great. I will have to check that out.

Bonni: [00:30:33] And what do you have to recommend for us today Stephanie.

Stephanie: [00:30:36] Well. One thing I have is it’s a Web site. Well a blog that Jennifer Gonzalez right called Cult of Pedagogy and if you might have heard of it. I particularly love her slogan which is Teacher Nerds Unite. It it’s more much more aimed at the K3 12 sector that I find meaning in in higher ed. There are so many points and ideas and even learning activities that she presents that I can easily see how to adapt for my students. And you know we all like to play and feel like we’re doing something that’s fun and learning and even you know some higher level thinking and reflection comes in as that I see that as a bonus.

Stephanie: [00:31:25] I’ll give you one example she gives is a gliss. And you have young children that you might know what this is or if you don’t you will soon because it’s big in elementary school. It’s a hieroglyphic character or symbol or really pictographs. So students are given choices or questions and then told if this then that. So for example I did one recently on perceptions on leadership. So I said if you think that someone is born a leader draw around a circle on the page if you think that people more learned how to be leaders draw a square page and then it ends up being a design of some sort. That might be the pizza or the one I did on leadership was a actually a person was a self portrait.

Stephanie: [00:32:13] So it was you know if you think you’ve had more leadership experience than most people your age get curly hair do you think he can be left are the same give it straight hair and then you know if you think you know leadership is something that extroverts are better at. Put glasses on. You think introverts don’t put glasses so you can at a glance you and a student can see that there are overlaps but there are differences that that everybody is right.

Stephanie: [00:32:44] Another thing and this one actually relates to the briefing that we were just talking about is the idea of Dogfooding which I’m really fascinated by. Just try things yourself before while you’re having your students try them so you know what they’re really like in the vein of de-briefing what I started doing is I made a little two thirds of a page handout for myself. And right after class or soon after each class session as I can I’ll fill it out. It’s just a template that says date and time location activities. And then I put in there kind of rate the engagement or energy level that I feel like the student as a whole and if they ask questions or seem really confused or really excited about something I make a note in that way when I teach that same session again. I have that little you know peace or cheat sheet for myself. So in a way if de-briefing on my own for future use.

Bonni: [00:33:47] It’s so funny that you would bring up that Dod food because that comes from the world of business to eat your own dog food. And I both cannot stand that expression. But at the same time there’s nothing that explains it better.

Stephanie: [00:34:01] Yeah. It’s pretty gross but it’s so true.

Bonni: [00:34:05] Well it actually reminds me of the episode with Mike Welsh where he talked about his cultivating just constantly learning new things and exposing himself to entirely new experiences he was taking violin lessons from one of the students learning how to animate. And I’ve been thinking about that so much because we’re asking our students to do that. But so many of us don’t. And it’s so easy to get stuck in the rut and then it’s also easy to not have the context of our students and what it is like to struggle and learn and fail and we’re all the things we’re trying to get our students to do so I love that I don’t have to I actually have her on my podcast app now and as you said she writes and does podcasts for both the K through 12. I mean it’s focused on that. But as you said many of the topics crossover and boy she’s a very dynamic host and off to go check it out.

Stephanie: [00:35:00] Lots of creative ideas and I think it kind of shakes things up in a higher ed situation to bring in something like we’re going to make a diagram or you know do I did a thing one time when I had a big poster paper and trace their bodies you know kind of like the murder outlined on TV. And I’ve had them write with big colorful markers. What makes a good occupational therapist in the quality. Just whatever comes to mind and you write those words or you can draw pictures in your outline and that’s kind of their goal that they many of them told me they take it on their wall at home and so that’s what they’re striving to be and I I found so much rich dialogue and just things that I realized they were thinking about or that they perceived as good clinical skills or research skills related to being an OT practitioner and I thought that was a really neat in and they were out of their seats they were in war they were looking at each other. They were laughing. Some of them are not very good artists. Some of them are great and you know it was it was a lot of fun.

Stephanie: [00:36:04] And speaking of that I have one more recommendation and there’s a story that goes with it. It goes back to a recommendation I got from you which is the app or game of food. And my recommendation is they have a new game on that site which is Kahoot.it. And the new game is called jumble.

Stephanie: [00:36:24] So it’s a sequence sequencing game and there’s a trial that you go through that will show you all the different options you can use but it’s a little bit different way you can do that interactive play in class in the story you have that goes with that is you know I started playing that in a lot of my classes I teach last spring. And when the students went away for summer break they came back and one of the students ran up to me and said guess what. And I said What. She said well you know Kahoot and I said yeah I know. And she said well I had a family reunion over the break. And I I got on Kahoot and made like a trivia game about the history of the family and things that we were going to play and I thought it was so much fun.

Stephanie: [00:37:09] I had my boyfriend you know I kind of did a dry run with with the game on him and she said then I went at the reunion and you know was projecting it on the screen and having everybody play and her boyfriend had gotten into the website and changed the very last class question. So he popped the question to her at the very end of Kahoot and she said yes.

Bonni: [00:37:34] Oh my goodness. And you thought my job is done.

Stephanie: [00:37:38] That’s right. You know she was telling us you know we all had tears in her eyes. She’s so excited. And you know got to hand it to the boyfriend what a creative way to do it. I love it I hope the people who know that. I should have to I should have her that it would be good.

Bonni: [00:37:57] Oh I totally love it. Well Stephanie has been so wonderful just having you as a part of the Teaching in Higher Ed community and for this great contribution today. Thank you for all the time you put into preparing and just your work and sharing with us about de-briefing I really appreciate having you on the show today.

Stephanie: [00:38:13] Thank you so much I have thoroughly enjoyed it and thank you for all your work. I’m constantly learning every every week from your show.

Bonni: [00:38:20] Oh thanks so much.

Bonni: [00:38:24] Thanks once again for sharing about how you first got into teaching and about that 3D model of de-briefing. For anyone listening if you would like to grow the teaching and higher ed community even more so we can have even more great guests like Stephanie on the best way for us to do that together is for you to write a review or leave a radio on whatever service it is that you use to listen to the show if that’s iTunes or stitcher. That’s a great way to spread the word that’s how we get to use their algorithms to move us up higher in the rankings and the more people see that this show is available.

Bonni: [00:38:59] Would love it if you would do that and thanks to those of you who have done that recently and also there’s a weekly e-mail that comes out with the show notes and an article about teaching or productivity written by me and if you want to subscribe to that it’s at teachinginhighered.com/subscribe. Thanks for listening and I’ll see you next time.

Teaching in Higher Ed transcripts are created using a combination of an automated transcription service and human beings. This text likely will not represent the precise, word-for-word conversation that was had. The accuracy of the transcripts will vary. The authoritative record of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcasts is contained in the audio file.