Bonni Stachowiak [00:00:00]:

Today on episode number 497 of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, personalized learning pedagogies with Paul Galbally and Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi. Welcome to this episode of Teaching in Higher Ed. I’m Bonni Stachowiak, and this is the space where we explore the art and science of being more effective at facilitating learning. We also share ways to improve our productivity approaches so we can have more peace in our lives and be even more present for our students. 

Doctor Paul Galbally is an applied psychologist and psychotherapist based in London, Essex in the United Kingdom. Paul currently works for the University of East London in the School of Psychology as a senior lecturer, where he teaches and delivers clinical training on several undergraduate and postgraduate counseling and psychology courses. With over a decade of clinical experience, he’s provided therapy to families, couples, and individuals while working in an array of high profile agencies, including the NHS, Relate Limited, the Family Justice System, Essex county council, and child and adolescent mental health services. Paul specializes in family systems, intimate relationships, Divorce, Separation, and the Psychosocial Relationships Between People. He’s a fellow of the Higher Education Academy and a research active academic, whose work has been published in international peer reviewed academic journals and books. Outside of work, Paul is a keen cook who is tremendously fond of Italian food and wine. He tries his best to practice yoga 3 times a week, plays bass guitar, and is the proud owner of 2 rescue SKU Pug Dogs, Who Enjoy Eating Anything He Drops Whilst Cooking. Paul has also recently become a new dad to a gorgeous baby girl called Bohemia Wilde and is trying to get some sleep when he can. 

Also joining me on today’s episode is doctor Fevronia Christodoulidi, aka Fenia. She is a London based BACP accredited psychotherapist with over 20 years of experience in supporting clients at different settings, including student and staff counseling, occupational health counseling, working in charities, and in private practice. She’s also a senior lecturer in counseling and psychotherapy at the University of East London, a qualitative researcher, a clinical supervisor, and consultant for therapists, educators, leaders, and mobile professionals across Different Sectors. Fenia is an equality, diversity, and inclusion facilitator deeply committed to supporting teams toward equitable relationships and inclusive workplaces.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:03:24]:

She’s a fellow of the Higher Education Academy, and she is actively involved in the decolonization movement within higher education. She’s a public speaker and provides talks and workshops on a variety of topics that draw from her expertise, such as the pedagogy of vulnerability, cross cultural therapy, existentialism, interracial relationships, and parenting children of dual heritage. Fenia is multilingual and has traveled extensively whilst having researched cross cultural communication throughout her career, Something that enables her to bring her knowledge and experience in supporting multicultural and multilingual individuals, teams, and workplaces. Fenia is an advocate of honoring diverse voices within institutions such as universities, Hence, adopting a personalized learning approach when teaching and supervising students at different levels. Paul and Fenia, welcome to Teaching in Higher Ed.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:04:30]:

Thank you for having us.

Paul Galbally [00:04:32]:

Yeah. Thank you. Lovely to be here.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:04:34]:

I was so glad to be introduced to you and instantly captivated by your research. And before I start asking you all sorts of questions. Fania, why don’t you tell us a little bit about where you work and and where you where you do your, I should say your life’s work and and a little bit about your context.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:04:52]:

Yes. So I’m based just outside London in terms of where I live, And both Paul and I are working at the University of East London, teaching on the BSC counseling, which is A 3 year program that leads to a professional qualification where students graduate with a practitioner degree to go out basically and, I practice as counselors. Besides that, I also run a private practice as a psychotherapist, but I’ve been in this institution for the last 10 years at UEL. So I’ve been there during the period where we’re trying to shape and form the course and its philosophy And his practices. And then Paul joined, and we’ve done much more work on this together, which I really enjoy working with Paul. So should I say a bit about the course?

Bonni Stachowiak [00:05:42]:

Oh, yes. But before you do, I’m curious for either one of you who would care to answer this. What do most people who aren’t in your profession misunderstand or or get wrong about therapy or teaching people to be therapists, whichever whichever way you’d like to go with that?

Paul Galbally [00:05:57]:

Yes. So I think the biggest misconception is that someone who is training to be a therapist or is a therapist always wants to be doing therapy. So people will talk to you on the tube and expect you to sort of you know, be it’s a bit like asking a a plumber to have a look at your pipes when every time they come out for dinner. So it is a is a thing that people think you’re doing it all the time or you’re analyzing them. You’re saying that analyzing what they’re saying, and and often that can be, you know, When I’m not at work, I love to just kind of not be doing that. And the other thing is also that we’ve got our lives together. The the especially the students often think we live kind of perfect lives. I think we Talk about it a bit in our paper, but this idea that we’re kind of the complete article.

Paul Galbally [00:06:36]:

And we have as, as flawed as anyone else, and we have our anxieties and all our All the stuff that comes with being a person. So sometimes there’s a it’s just a big expectation of of the therapist. We’re expected to sort of know what we’re doing all the time, and and often we we don’t.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:06:55]:

Yes. That’s so true. I feel like on a broader level, I know that I can have misconceptions just like it always seems like other people have it together or know things. Other people got the instruction book that somehow I missed in life or things. So that’s so true.

Paul Galbally [00:07:08]:

I think mine’s still in the post. Yes.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:07:11]:

Well, thanks for sharing a little bit about your context and some of the misconceptions options that people will have. So, Fenia, tell us about this program that the 2 of you worked on, and and how it came about, and and what how it works.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:07:24]:

Yes. So we are based in East London in the borough of Newham in Stratford, for those who know the London geography,

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:07:33]:

Which is very much a hub of multiculturalism in the sense that, yeah, the the community is very diverse in terms of, Racial representation, religion. As an example, just opposite our campus, we have the girls’ Muslim school. On the other road of our university, we have a Hindu temple. Further down the line, we have a mosque. So a lot of the students we have, of diverse ethnic backgrounds and religious backgrounds. And, also, because it’s an undergraduate course, we have diversity in terms of age. Like, for example, we may have an 18 year old who just finished school and feels very inexperienced about life coming to study something very responsible, But we may have also students who are, in a career change. They may be in the forties, fifties, sixties even who decided to change.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:08:22]:

And So in the classroom, we have, yeah, this diverse, setting, which is such a contrast to The courses I’ve taught previously outside of London, which are predominantly white, predominantly female students, usually middle aged women. So that’s such a contrast, as I was saying, which also caused the question about how do we meet the needs, the learning needs of such a diverse group. That’s how Paul and I started discussing. Okay. So we have a curriculum, but is that something that is actually compatible, and is it something responsive to this diverse cohort of students we have? Also to say Something else that is distinct about this program. I mean, in the UK, counseling and psychotherapy are not yet a regulated profession, Like in the US, for example, although we work towards that in the next 3 years or so. So this course is the only undergraduate course In London, amongst about 10 or 12 in the whole country at undergraduate level that have obtained the BACP accreditation, which is the British Association counseling and psychotherapy. So that gave us certain standards that we need to work towards.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:09:38]:

And we were very aware that we wanna meet these standards, but we don’t want this to be stifling, if you like. Sometimes, you know, with rules and regulations, sometimes they cannot be designed in a way that they consider to be culturally sensitive. So that was also something that we give a lot of emphasis on, how we can Holds to the on to the standards, but make them inclusive and responsive to the needs of the students.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:10:08]:

What a whole series of tensions and aspirations that I imagine have been both challenging, and it sounds like filled you with Hope For What’s Possible too. Talk about the role specifically that that personalized learning plays. And I’ll I’ll I’ll tell you up front that personalized learning is one of those words the phrases that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. So How does your idea of personalized learning play a role in the way you’ve structured things?

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:10:40]:

Okay. So I would say if it was to I wouldn’t talk about definition necessarily, but let’s assume that what we mean let’s take this weighting definition that we want to Be teaching in a way where everybody can make the most of that experience. Mhmm. Everybody can flourish. Everybody can Engage with the learning in ways that are stimulating, empowering, and facilitate that in a way that actually they’re there to succeed. So one of the things one of the principles that come to that is that we communicate the message to the students. I know we are with you. We are On your side, we want you to succeed.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:11:19]:

We want to also provide you something that is not designed in a way that it’s inadvertently may set you up to fail. So an example would be, let’s say, neurodiversity. You know? Are we teaching in ways that can engage the, student who has some learning differences, or is our curriculum very focused on Western ideas, for example? Is our curriculum delivered in a way where the student who may have, I don’t know, some mobility issues, may find it Difficult to sit still in a classroom. That’s just some everyday examples. So these are the questions we’ve been having With real case studies, if you like, that we had to face in our program, and we had to come up with a solution, something that would make it Exciting and engaging for the student.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:12:11]:

And how about the role that the student experience and the ways in which academic support comes in academic progression. Paul, do you wanna share a bit about that?

Paul Galbally [00:12:22]:

Yeah. Thank you. So we have standard academic support within the university. So things like Academic advising, where students are given a a member of staff that guides them in in different places, and we have various support services. But on the course, we thought We build real relationships with the students. They get to know us, and we get to know them. We because we watch them counseling. So often, They’ll tell us quite intimate things in their lives because they when we do counseling training, we don’t ask them to do role play.

Paul Galbally [00:12:50]:

We we call it real play, where they bring real issues. And so we get to know stuff about them. I mean, I’m a I’m I’m my I have expertise in relationships, so I’m always interested in people’s relationships and Whether they’re romantic or family relationships or other ones. So we get that idea of actually we get to know the students, and the students become Incredibly, and also this is a counseling course. You get strange dynamics between the staff and students. You get lots of counseling terms that things like transference and all these sorts of things happen. So We represent people to our students. So sometimes that’s good, sometimes that’s bad, but we work through these things with students.

Paul Galbally [00:13:25]:

So there’s a real and as Fenya said, we we go alongside the students. We want them to succeed and we but we also want there to we want to contain them because counseling training is quite exposing. And often people who come on the training have come because something’s happened to them. So for example, students come on because they’ve they’ve been bereaved Or they’ve when they was a child, they didn’t have a counselor to help them through something. So often they come in with quite challenging experiences that they’re trying to To work out. And and sometimes when things can as you probably know yourself enough, they can trip you up these things. You they suddenly get activated previous losses and previous, insecurities. So one of the things we really do on there is we we get to know them, and and they get to know us.

Paul Galbally [00:14:08]:

I think that’s a big difference in a lot of courses. We’re not and some of the students in their In their data collection talked about they know things about us. They share in our lives. And that can feel a bit exposing as a as a As an academic, but, actually, I love that part of the teaching because you you interact with real people, and and you model Dealing with difficult emotions, dealing with difficult situations. So we often do that with our students. So the support is often very personalized, very intimate, and but also Come to boundaries. It’s it’s where we wouldn’t give them their phone numbers to ring us up on a Saturday. So there’s we have to a bit like with client work.

Paul Galbally [00:14:45]:

We have to Kind of hold the line between being a, I suppose, a professional friend, but also being a a an educator. And we mark their work. We We we, you know, we have to we we evaluate them as well, so we have to straddle that. So it can be tricky, but it’s it’s lovely to win them. And often I have students I get students contact me years after they’ve left just to tell me how they’re getting on. And they wanna let us know they’re doing something or saying that we don’t want the Oh, sweetie makes it they finally got it. You know, something we said 5 years ago, they said, oh, yeah. That makes sense now once they go into practice and things like that.

Paul Galbally [00:15:20]:

So, yeah, we kinda take an approach where we really give ourselves to the students and and let them give themselves to us, if that makes sense.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:15:27]:

Yes. You you use the word boundaries, and I’d love to hear a bit more about the ways either of you navigate these boundaries. Do you Share them with students in any sort of written form such as the syllabus, or do you verbalize them, or how how do you think through and then articulate? And I I as I know a bit about boundaries, set them and then also keep them going, keep keep them at the top of the community’s mind.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:15:55]:

Yeah. I mean, I can offer examples. I think the way the way I do it is to be offering personal examples of Either how I’ve experienced certain phenomena we are teaching them about. Like, for example, when we teach about, I don’t know, Diversity or intersectionality or difference. I may bring my experience of being an immigrant. You know? The fact that I’m a foreigner Living in the UK, the fact that I have an accent and, people may question where I’m from or they may make assumptions about, you Now drawing from my my appearance, like, for example, I have dark features. Sometimes people think I’m a Latina or that I am Muslim, but, actually, I’m from a Greek Orthodox Country. You know? Nothing to do with the assumption.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:16:41]:

So, yeah, I may bring examples like that from my personal life, The things that I embody and how this have played out in my work with clients and how I’ve handled it. Or it may be an example of Some ethical dilemmas or the boundaries coming up in the therapeutic relationship and, again, how I have handled it. Like, A recent example was saying that, you know, I went to a restaurant with my husband, and the waiter happened to be my client, how that affected Then the dynamics between us, how we spoke about it. So the fact that I’m not just bringing case studies from a book, But I’m actually talking about my own examples. That makes it very relatable. And then there may be things like bringing humor into it, trying to have difficult conversations sometimes by making them lighter to begin with or having a bit of self Sarcasm or something around this to break the ice. Like I may say, oh, what happens what if you fall in love with your client? Or what if your client comes on your door and, you know, stops you or whatever. So we make it real by bringing my own examples.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:17:52]:

And I think that’s what the students then relate to when they don’t see us as this, you know, all knowing person with everything you saw then and I have all the answers. It’s more about learning to think rather than having always the solution. So I I give them that process of my dilemmas, and that makes it Tangible for them.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:18:11]:

I know that a big part of not just the course, but the the program is something called the use of SELF, as the main tool. Would you talk a bit about the use of SELF?

Paul Galbally [00:18:23]:

Yeah. I could start with that, and and maybe, Fen, you could add with any information, anything. So use yourself is it comes from a kind of therapeutic under because, again, we find our therapy all the people who teach on the course are therapists. So we do have that kind of practical experience where we can as Fenya said, we go for case studies and various other things. And we also done quite a lot of work on ourselves. Part of training is to go into therapy, I think. So we we kind of know a lot about ourselves. We’ve we’ve gone up you know, we’ve done quite a investigation into ourselves.

Paul Galbally [00:18:54]:

And In therapy, the use of self is really important. The idea that you work with your client, you you collaborate, and we it kinda Kind of transpose that into our teaching. Because often, we’ll have students say things like I need to do a perfect session. I need to say the right thing. It doesn’t exist. We and we, as Svenja said, we’ll we’ll kind of highlight our some of the best therapies I’ve done is when I’ve made a mistake I’ve got something more and and repair the voucher. And so we say that we’re people. We the idea of social relationships being in flux and when you’re working with clients or you’re learning, If you don’t make mistakes in the therapy women training, you’re you’re never gonna learn anything.

Paul Galbally [00:19:34]:

So it’s this idea that there’s a sense of vulnerability and and reflection on what happens. So this idea that the self is sort of fallible, well, it’s always developing. I mean, we we call that sort of therapist try therapist in training, and and Fen you and I are still therapist in Training. We don’t know everything. You know? When you for example, some of the the greats, like, people like Patrick Casement and people, they write books in their later years, and they still write. You know, I’m finally getting the ideas behind this. They’ve got this sort of humility around them where I’m just about understanding what I’m doing now, and they’ve been doing this for 100 of years. And and it’s that idea that, As Fred said, we don’t have all the answers, but we we use ourselves as people.

Paul Galbally [00:20:09]:

We are the tool of the therapy, the learning. And and by Doing that, the closer we get to each other, the more we understand each other. You know? That I think the further you are from your experience, the more Confusing it can be, or the less understanding you get when you have a conversation with a partner. And sometimes you just misfire because you’re so far away from where you’re trying to talk to each other that you sort of it gets further and further away, and by the end of it, you’re you’re in different places. And it’s like that, so we we really invite People to use themselves and when they feel especially when they feel things. You know? If you’re in a room so for example, I’ll sometimes feel sleepy when I’m watching Student sessions. I know that means someone’s not saying something. I know that that that feeling isn’t me being tired.

Paul Galbally [00:20:54]:

That’s me feeling that something’s not being said By these training therapies, things being missed, and there’s a dynamic we need to think about. And we’ll highlight that, and I know that because I feel it. So it’s often them sort of, I suppose, hunches Or felt sense or all different things like that. So it’s really it feels a bit mystical, but it’s kind of you don’t like that feeling when you’re in love and you just know. It’s a lot of that sort of stuff. You know?

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:21:18]:

Yeah. I think another important aspect, especially For students who make a career change is to bring out the strengths that they have developed from a previous career to the current one And make that use of self there. What I mean is I can think of students we have where one was a fireman. The other one was a police woman. Another one was a performer. Another one was a teacher. And, you know so what were the qualities that they have developed in this previous career that can be useful till now. So that would be their use of self.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:21:53]:

For example, you know, the fireman is very stoic and used to be in a crisis where, you know, life is under threat, And they’ve managed to cope. So how could they use that power of themselves in this new professional identity? I think this is a very good example where students then feel empowered, and they don’t feel that they have to throw away the previous life because they decided to do a course, you know, at age 40, and that is the last years. They actually can make these connections, and that gives them a sense of purpose and a continuity.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:22:26]:

Oh, yes. I’m hearing a sense of asset based pedagogy there that that all of our prior life experience, context, cultures, we’re able to use them as gifts in this new in this new way that I suspect is for so many of them, feels very new. And You probably give them such a sense of hope when you share though and help them connect with that. Yeah.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:22:48]:

Yeah.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:22:49]:

Talk about the ways in which you invite students to provide you with feedback using virtual tools.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:22:56]:

Yes. I mean, the university has Some an an avenue where there is a questionnaire that is sent to them, the students in a specific, time during the academic Term. So for example, now we are, I think, week 8 during the term, and next week, they’re gonna send out this Questionnaire where they give them specific questions around the content of the course, the delivery, the The support they get about assessment, how they find the tutors, the facilitators. So that is a standardized method that the university, is using to to do that. But I I also find that in terms of student engagement with that, it does help if we And Karis said to give that feedback in the class as well. And perhaps because we wanted to be obviously anonymous or do not You know, how would the students say the things that they’re uncomfortable with if it’s a live discussion? But, again, for example, we can tell the students to log on a platform in the class and do that so that they can share without exposing the name, the feedback they have. That is in terms of the. I don’t know if, Paul, you have any other idea.

Paul Galbally [00:24:15]:

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Danielle. I suppose one of the things we we came across was that Therapy is kind of old fashioned in some sense that before the pandemic, it was all done in person, and there was this huge thing about being in the room with people. And I’ll be honest, I prefer working with people in the I do. I’ve got a lot more used to the online world, but we had to adapt quick. We had to really update our practices. And the pandemic mean meant we didn’t track the calls down.

Paul Galbally [00:24:40]:

We we worked through. And but we put things online. We held therapy sessions online. And we’ve kind of used a lot of that since. So we still do a lot of learning online. So we so I think what it does encourage, it encourages discussions after classes. So we put things we use Microsoft Teams. So it’s quite a nice platform because you can have a meeting, then you can put information in, And then you can have a discussion.

Paul Galbally [00:25:02]:

You could and I I mean, I love sharing papers with students. I love to share actual academic sources because I think sometimes students are bit especially our students, they’re quite frightened of Academic work. I’m I’m I’m from a gypsy background, so a lot of people from my background didn’t finish school. So I really get that. You know, I’m the 1st person in my family to go to university, etcetera, etcetera. So a lot lot of our students have a similar experience. And so I really love being able to give them academic articles or blogs that link to articles or newspaper articles after classes, and I always set them reading as well. So and I kind of chased them up online to say, look.

Paul Galbally [00:25:39]:

Read this. It’s really interesting. And come to the come to the classroom and ask me about the paper. Critique the paper. Tell me the paper was rubbish. And it really encourages that sense of of learning between sessions and coming prepared for questions to really I kind of start that critical thinking to say, what did you think of the paper? What about the author? Did you check them out to see where their position was on this? You know? Were they did they have a sort of stake in this paper? And I think what it does is I love that sort of interface between online learning and learning in person. Because what you do is you kinda start the learning, and then they come in, and then Go home and do something, or you give them a video to watch, or say, why don’t you watch this film? Because this is something we looked at today. And then they come back, and it kind of allows a learning almost up osmosis in the week.

Paul Galbally [00:26:26]:

And and they have a little discussion group sometimes as well. So you’ll see discussions where someone says, I love that article. And I really I was thinking about this, and this part maybe really crossed because I didn’t like the way that was that that case they used or whatever like this. So it’s I think it has enabled us to create a 24 hour learning that people can access as also in their own time Because often getting to universities hard for students. They’ve got busy lives, so it allows them to and some people are night birds. They kinda be up at 3 in the morning. They Wanna read something. So it allows that sort of, again, that personalized learning where it’s not it’s not strictly between 2 to 4 or it’s it’s very adaptable.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:27:03]:

Before we get to the recommendations segment, I’d love to hear you share a bit about what you’ve heard from the students about the course.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:27:11]:

Yeah. I actually have some verbatim feedback that I have recorded here on my notebook, which I can read

Bonni Stachowiak [00:27:20]:

Yeah. Please.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:27:21]:

Figure out. So here’s 1 student said, it’s easy to be silent or hide behind dry theory, But the risks you took and the tentative self disclosures made the topic feel much more tangible. So that was from one, of the students we, we we had in this focus group. Another, comment was, I love your teaching. It is congruent, brave, An allowed, safe, inviting environment for me to explore what I consider really uncomfortable questions. So I think that sows a bit these, you know, as I was saying, breaking the eyes and allowing this vulnerable aspect to come into the conversations that then the students felt that it was okay to do as well rather than have the more, let’s say, dry Theory discussion, the intellectualizing of a topic, and not making it relatable to real world problems.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:28:18]:

Yes. Oh, boy, those are such powerful words. I I picture those, if not literally framed, then framed in your mind, treasures that you can carry with you to really reinforce the courage that you’re showing. I how wonderful to hear the word brave and safe in the same I believe it was the same sentence, but if not the same sentence, the same sentiment. I we there’s some debate not debate is Perhaps too strong a word, but the idea of safe spaces really resonates with me, but so does the idea of brave spaces. So that you got both brave and safe in the same I mean, that’s really beautiful Well, that you could achieve that. That’s that’s really beautiful. Wanting to stretch people, but also wanting them to be able to be fully present and in all of the fullness of who they are.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:29:01]:

I I mean, I would also say, so I didn’t know for one to say that this also linked to the brave and safe, To the idea of the university being an environment where we can cultivate attitudes for social justice. I think that’s very hot now in the world, I mean, in academia, but in the world as well, that sometimes by Focusing only on the safe. It means that we don’t challenge the practices that are not right, like racism or ableism or things like that. So I think This is something about our our students have also said that they don’t they do want to be part of this movement of Distracting inequalities and injustices, but they don’t know how. So I think I don’t know if you would agree, Paul, that when we were in this focus group we talk about in the paper, they did feel that we could create this anchors, if you like, where they can hold on and dare say things that are Difficult. I don’t know how you would describe it, Paul.

Paul Galbally [00:30:03]:

Yeah. Definitely. We we encourage students To to explore and also explore their their darker thoughts. You know? People often especially in in in learning spaces, don’t don’t wanna talk about the things that they find difficult or the biases they hold, and and that that perpetuates biases because they may become unconscious and they become manifest in other places. So we We often get people to talk about the things they find fearful or the people they find difficult to be with or the experiences they find difficult to hold. One of the things I say to students This course will make you uncomfortable. And if it doesn’t, we’re not doing our job. You know? We want people to feel discomfort, but in a way that they can, I suppose, interrogate that discomfort and think, what is it about this situation or this critique that makes me feel discomfort? And I suppose it’s that that relationship between safe and brave spaces.

Paul Galbally [00:30:52]:

I think spaces are only safe when you feel that they’re safe, and they can change. A space is always safe. It is safe as long as it is made to be safe, whereas a brave space becomes a space where you can make a space safe by talking about things. And and One of the the joys we have for students, especially in the the group we had and what they said is learning from other people, hearing a perspective different to your own, which they may never have heard before, And and having a a person in front of them to share an experience that feels very different to their own, but they can then connect to pieces of it, or they can empathize a bit of it, or they can it helps them understand their self better. So it’s always this kind of, I suppose learning and and being open to we we do something called personal development groups. And we often talk in there about the things that if you’re having a response to something, what is it about that person or that discussion that’s making you feel that? Because we often sometimes think about, I just feel offended or angry or whatever about something. But often it’s about wondering why is that activating me? Why does that make me have such an impulsive reaction to this. And if we can do that and once you start doing it, it really makes life a bit easier because you kinda do it in all sorts of places, and you think, actually, why do I why does this Sting really affect me.

Paul Galbally [00:32:05]:

So we do. We kind of encourage that with students, and they often they love that once they’ve learned to do that because they take it to their relationships, they take it to their friendships. They take it to their work, and it helps them understand. And, actually, they share it with others as well. You know? If they’ve got children, they model it with their children. You know? We’ve had stories from students I’ve done this thing. We learned about with the children. We’ve done this.

Paul Galbally [00:32:25]:

And they come back and they’re excited that they’ve they’ve sort of seen it in action, if that makes sense.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:32:31]:

Well, this is the time in the show in which we each get to give our recommendations, and I have 2. As you were speaking and talking about London, I started thinking fondly on my trips there, although I have not traveled there in more than 2 decades. And so for anyone who were to go to London for the first time and perhaps Travel on the Tube. I went I can vividly remember traveling and missing my stop and thinking, well, I’m on the circle line, so I’ll just wait until it circles back around. The circle line is in fact not a circle. It’s it’s a line. So I just that’s my tip. My recommendation one is don’t expect that circle line to actually be a circle.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:33:11]:

It is not. Television show. There is a TV service called Apple TV plus, which, side note, you could subscribe to even for just 1 month in order to get all the goodness of their shows. And it is a television show about a grieving therapy therapist. And the grieving therapist, it’s It’s actually a comedy. The com the show is called Shrinking, and it stars Jason Segel and Harrison Ford. Jace they’re they run a practice together, a a psychotherapy practice together. And the character that Jason Segel plays just decides that he’s actually gonna start breaking some of the rules that therapists are supposed to follow.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:33:50]:

And rather than sort of more guiding them and asking questions, he’s just gonna tell them exactly what he thinks. He ignores his training. He ignores his sense of ethics and all sorts of hilarity and, really fun funny believe it or not, funny things happen. And I know that, Paul, you were mentioning early in our conversation that people will expect you to always want to be a therapist. And just like somebody who’s an attorney doesn’t wanna always watch shows about legal situations, and people may not wanna watch a show about therapy. But I have my friends who are therapists have watched shrinking and say it passes the test for general society, but also people who are therapists. My sample size of, like, 3 people, also found it quite amusing and not one of those triggering things in terms of watching a show about your profession. Of course, it’s not meant to be, realistic, but it is certainly relatable to so many of the challenging things that we can experience in our lives.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:34:46]:

So those are my 2 recommendations. And, Paul, I’m gonna pass it over to you for yours.

Paul Galbally [00:34:51]:

Yeah. Thank you. I had 2 as well. So one was a bit More serious, and then one was a bit more recreational. So the serious one was I went to a talk. There’s a thing called the Skeptic Society where they have talks in pubs, and people come in and tell you about Books or bit they’re different speakers. And and this guy, Keith Con Harris, came in, and he’s wrote a book called The Bable Message, a love letter to language. And I love language And how it, you know, situates people.

Paul Galbally [00:35:16]:

And, basically, he discovered that when he opened the I don’t think he’s American, but a kinder egg. They’re little, sweets like little eggs with Toying. And there’s a toy in the in there, and there’s a little message, and it tells you to you know, if you got small kids, don’t eat the toy, because they can choke. And he discovered that the message, when it’s it’s translated in loads of languages on this little sheet, that actually the translation is different in every language. And so he done a whole book on how language isn’t universal, and things get translated differently. And he translated the A Hindu egg message in over 200 languages, including Zulu, Klingon, Cornish, Elvish, and got experts to Comment on what they actually meant. And it’s quite a funny book, but it’s also really serious. He talks about the complexities of language, but it is funny that he and he gets every year sent a big box of kinder eggs by Kinder.

Paul Galbally [00:36:05]:

And he’s got hundreds of these things. So and it’s a brilliant book because it it really the the way it started, I think it’s brilliant just from his little leg, and he wrote a whole kind of book about Well, you know, he’s a veteran. He still gets people sending obscure languages that they know to him, and he’s always on the lookout for more. So if you’re an obscure language speaker, get in touch with him because he’s always looking at oh, apologies. My dog.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:36:27]:

Oh, you’re allowed to have dogs. The dog does the dog have anything that they would like to share on.

Paul Galbally [00:36:34]:

They’re definitely looking for Kinder Eggs somewhere. I know.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:36:36]:

I was he just really wanted to talk about this. Boy, this is great because some holidays are coming up for for some of us, And the I mean, this looks like a wonderful gift for people who enjoy language you’re giving.

Paul Galbally [00:36:48]:

It is.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:36:49]:

I have to multitask now and go on my computer and start adding it to our gift list.

Paul Galbally [00:36:54]:

Really good book, and it is good fun. And if you get a kinder, you’ll never look at it the same. So you wonder, what does it say in Romanian? You know? You know? Something like this. So Yes. My 2nd recommendation is I bought the best thing I’ve ever bought was a pizza oven, a mobile pizza oven. And you can take it camping, and it’s by a company called Ooni. And someone recommended to me, and I can’t stop making pizzas.

Paul Galbally [00:37:15]:

I love it. And it’s become my thing. So when people come Set this thing up and stick wood in the back of it, and I feel like a proper, pizza chef. You know? And it’s it’s become an obsession of mine. So I would recommend if you’re into pizza, Get this thing because you could take it anywhere if you as well. So it’s a and I’ve I’ve yeah.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:37:33]:

I’m cracking up because I know that brand name. I listen to a lot of tech podcasts, And so it’s a sponsor that company is a sponsor for many. By the way, not a sponsor for Teaching in Higher Ed. Paul’s Paul’s recommendation is from his heart and his stomach entirely. But but, I didn’t realize it was portable or that they made portable ones. So always when they talk about it, I pictured you’d have to have know, installed some huge thing in your backyard or something like that.

Paul Galbally [00:37:57]:

You can you can put wood in the back of it, so you don’t even need a gas supply or a dig. So it’s and I just I got it as a bit of a sort of experiment, and I I love it now, and it’s my favorite. I’ve never been into bar I’ve never got barbecues working. The pizza ovens I’ve mastered.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:38:10]:

Oh my gosh.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:38:12]:

Camping, you don’t think I’ve pizza while you’re camping, but it sounds amazing. You’re almost making me wanna go camping. Almost. Alright, Fania. What would you like to recommend today?

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:38:27]:

Yeah. I have 2 recommendation 2, recommendations too. 1 is, a non profit organization, which is actually based in Whitechapel, not far from our university in East London called, the Service Society UK Associations association. So if you wanna look it up, it’s service hyphen society.org.uk. So this is A community project where all the activities are run by volunteers, and they we offer relaxation groups, Groups for the study of the self, self awareness groups, meditation, dance and movement therapy. It’s something that is done as the Title says, you know, cyber society is free of charge. It’s speaking to the community there, but also people connect online sometimes, you know, in the groups we can also offer online. So this has been a project that I’ve been involved in for a while.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:39:22]:

So if you are in London and you wanna come to the premises, just Look for the Server Society UK Association if you wanna have a meditation session, for example, during your travels. And the book that came out a few months ago, which is actually the author is called Andreas Dreitzas, which is a Greek author, It’s by the president of this association, which has you know, the regional branch was in Greece, and it’s called the title of the book is simple, isn’t it? And it talks about the idea that living a full life in all this business and complication that we live in is More simple than we think. If we if we acquire certain principles and we practice them, and it gives examples from, As I say, professional examples and from working with people. So I quite like this book because it’s very simple, And it just speaks to you directly to the heart. It’s something that you read, and you say, yeah. Actually, I can make some choices and decisions here to live a simpler life, Which I think it fits very well in every stage as we live. Life is complicated. Or it can get complicated, but it’s an internal State.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:40:31]:

I guess the simplicity is an internal state, which really speaks to me, especially, you know, I’m trying to handle children and work, and I’m trying to simplify things. So that’s That’s me. Simple, isn’t it?

Bonni Stachowiak [00:40:42]:

I love it. I feel like those exercises, speaking of case studies, where you only get to choose a certain amount of things to take with you to the desert island or whatever it is, I feel like our collection of recommendations today could satisfy us. If only we had some water, then we would, we could really live a long time with these commendations. I I mean, pizza. How could you go wrong? And something entertaining, something thought provoking, and a way to use our Skills and Be With Others in Community and Serve. That sounds wonderful. Thank you both for these recommendations and for This this research that you’ve done in terms of sharing the learning that you’ve taken from this course, and it’s just been what a delight to get to know you a little bit today and be connected.

Fevronia (Fenia) Christodoulidi [00:41:25]:

Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity you gave us. I really enjoyed this today, our conversation.

Paul Galbally [00:41:31]:

Yeah. It’s been great. Thanks ever so much. I will look forward to hearing it when it’s, on live. So, yeah, it’s been great to be part of this. Thank you.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:41:41]:

Thanks once again to Paul Galbally and Fenia Christodoulidi for joining me on today’s episode. And thanks to each of you for listening. Today’s episode was produced by me, Bonni Stachowiak. It was edited by the ever talented Andrew Kroeger. Podcast production support was provided by the amazing Sierra Priest. It’s time, if you’ve not done it yet, to go over to teachinginhighered.com/subscribe so that you can get the weekly plea emails that’ll send over the weekly show notes from the most recent episode as well as some other resources that don’t show up in those regular show notes. Thank you so much for listening, and I’ll see you next time on Teaching in Higher Ed. 

Teaching in Higher Ed transcripts are created using a combination of an automated transcription service and human beings. This text likely will not represent the precise, word-for-word conversation that was had. The accuracy of the transcripts will vary. The authoritative record of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcasts is contained in the audio file.