Dave Stachowiak [00:00:00]:

Today on episode 500 of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, generous lessons from you.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:00:10]:

Welcome to this episode of Teaching in Higher Ed. I’m Bonni Stachowiak, and this is the space where we explore the art and science of being more effective at facilitating learning. We also share ways to improve our productivity approaches so we can have more peace in our lives and be even more present And for our students.

Dave Stachowiak [00:00:40]:

Congratulations. 500 episodes. A chance to have been in community, learning from each other. We’re gonna Celebrate today, Bonni, and talk about the lessons we’ve shared and had the privilege to be a part of here in our community.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:00:55]:

Dave and I are filled with gratitude today for all of the ways in which people have shared how this community has helped you to laugh boldly, cry openly, Show up, think deeply, think again, be humble, connect generously, and amplify voices.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:17]:

That’s a lot of stuff we’re gonna do in this episode.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:01:19]:

That’s a lot. We even have sound effects. I think we need it one more time just before we do the first Yeah.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:25]:

Hopefully, that’s coming across on the audio okay. Hopefully, we also didn’t cause a automobile accident for someone in their car thinking that someone behind them was trying to get in their way.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:01:35]:

Not to mention, we hope that our podcast editor, Andrew Kroger, didn’t just have his ears blown out.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:40]:

Always possible. But by time you hear this, He will have fixed that. That’s the beauty of it. So Andrew may not have survived

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:47]:

But the rest of us will have survived.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:01:50]:

This first Active generosity is a reflection from Alan Levine, who talks about the ways in which an episode helped him to laugh boldly. Here is our first of many clips. This one from Alan

Alan Levine [00:02:05]:

Levine. Hi, Bonni. It’s Alan Levine. Happy 500th episode. That is epic. That is like many, many more two o eights combined with all the good stuff. Picking 1 is, such a a hard thing to do, but I’m going with episode, 399 because I love satire. And this, bit that you chose to read from McSweeney’s Internet Tendency, Which I love like so much.

Alan Levine [00:02:29]:

I love the way they write, and I love satire. It reminds me as a kid how I just was so tuned in to Mad Magazine. And I could actually read a satirized version of a movie in Mad Magazine, and I could back out what the thought was. And so I can do that with McSweeney’s too because it is based on nuggets of truth. It’s just stretched out of proportion. It makes us feel good and your, you know, your decision to choose to do this as sort of a a relief in hard times, Mixed in with all the other fantastic interviews and work that you do just makes a reason why I’m such a big fan of Teaching in Higher Ed. I hope to be there for at least the next 505100 more after that, and hope you are too. Thanks again, Bonni.

Dave Stachowiak [00:03:17]:

Speaking of laughing, you have received more than 1 message over the years Bonni of people enjoying your laugh. I also would add in that you have a pretty adorable sneeze too. If you could try to sneeze on demand.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:03:31]:

I really wish I could. That’d be really cool. You know what? I sneeze often with chocolate, And then usually makes me sneeze 2 times. It’s a weird a weird thing.

Dave Stachowiak [00:03:38]:

I don’t think I knew that about you.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:03:40]:

Doesn’t happen every time, but it’s-

Dave Stachowiak [00:03:41]:

Generous lessons we’re learning about each other right now.

Dave Stachowiak [00:03:46]:

So speaking of laughs, there’s a memorable laugh from a episode with Mike Caulfield.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:03:55]:

Yes. And in the beginning of this clip, we’re gonna be playing a short bit of This American Life So that what we have to say about it makes sense. So here’s a clip from This American Life followed by Mike Caulfield and I responding to it.

This American Life story about the tooth fairy [00:04:10]:

Rebecca remembers exactly when she learned the astonishing truth. She was in 2nd grade and ran into her best friend Rachel at school one day.

This American Life story about the tooth fairy [00:04:17]:

And She pulled me aside and and said, you know, last night, you know, I lost a tooth and I woke up while the tooth fairy was Putting the money under my pillow and guess who the tooth fairy was. I said, oh my god. Who was it? I I have to know. And she said, my dad. My dad is the tooth fairy, and I remember running home after school and telling my mom, mom, I know who the tooth fairy is, and declaring it as if I had grown up that I I knew who who the tooth fairy was. And she said, oh, well, who is the tooth fairy? And I turned to her, and I said, Rachel’s dad is the tooth fairy. Bonni Loeberfeld is the tooth fairy.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:05:03]:

That’s just the beginning. You’ve got to go to listen to more of it. It’s a wonderful episode Of kids who have misunderstood things, and I will admit that I tend to play it pretty safe on this show. I don’t say a lot of controversial things, but here goes. Just here’s my warning. My husband and I do not plan on telling our children that there is such a thing as a tooth fairy. And I apologize if that offends you.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:05:28]:

But it’s one of those things that we like to think about with our kids that when we tell them things like Like this. And again, we’re not gonna judge any of you who that’s your thing. But for us, we just we wanna sort of contribute to their own literacy and thinking, and I’m having fun with my son who’s four and Half now just talking to him about what is real and what is imagined and what is symbolic, and just trying to teach him what those things mean. And he’s pretty Dave good at discerning those things at a young age, and I think one of the things is that we just watch out to any parts that we as parents might be doing to contribute to that. But anyway, even if you don’t agree and you wanna tell your kids that there’s such a thing as a tooth fairy In this world, it’s still a really fun episode to listen to, and I just found myself smiling so much that my cheeks hurt. So that’s my recommendation for Dave, and I’m gonna pass it over to you, Mike.

Mike Caulfield [00:06:16]:

Well, I you know, the the tooth fairy thing, I don’t remember being shocked finding out my parents were were the tooth fairy. I remember being shocked that my my mom had kept all the teeth. They were, like, they were, like, a little jar. And, like, So this just seemed to me this is like I don’t know. It seemed like Roman or something, just like a jar of tea. But, you know, her her feeling was, well, it just seemed weird to throw them away when it’s like, well, you know, I I yeah. The tooth fairy thing the fact you guys are the tooth fairy, that’s not freaking me out. No.

Mike Caulfield [00:06:47]:

The the jar the jar of baby teeth These are covered though. That’s that’s a little that’s a little dumber. So, you know, might might wanna back off of that.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:06:58]:

It’s funny that you bring that up because, of course, it’s always as a parent, you’re thinking about things in advance often of when they actually happen, but this is something I didn’t even think about.

Mike Caulfield [00:07:05]:

What do you do with the do with the teeth? Yeah. Yeah. So in any case yeah. But for folks out there, whether whether you engage in tooth fairyism or not, you know, that’s great, but don’t keep a jar of teeth in the medic medicine The cabinet. That’s just freaky.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:07:19]:

My parents do search and rescue with their dogs, and I’m laughing because as I’m saying this to you, I’m realizing what you do with them is you give them to your parents because they use them as Scent articles for the dogs as they go on

Mike Caulfield [00:07:30]:

Oh, no.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:07:32]:

Yeah. That’s what you do with your teeth.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:07:35]:

I know, this is another embarrassing confession, then I’ll stop. For Easter many years, I wouldn’t see my parents because they would be doing cadaver Easter egg hunts with the dogs.

Mike Caulfield [00:07:43]:

Steve No.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:07:44]:

There’s a synthetic scent for dead body smell, and they’d put it inside Easter eggs, and the dogs would go find them.

Mike Caulfield [00:07:51]:

Oh my gosh.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:07:54]:

I’m wondering if our

Mike Caulfield [00:07:55]:

I feel like believing in the tooth fairy was not the worst of your childhood issues.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:08:00]:

Yes. Perhaps.

Mike Caulfield [00:08:02]:

I think I think that there’s a whole other universe of things to work out.

Dave Stachowiak [00:08:07]:

Oh, we’ve had all kinds of fun along the way, Bonni. I think about Just actually a day or 2 ago, we had a lost tooth in our house, and now we got our systems down. We know they go to grandma, Forsunt articles. Speaking of laughing, Let’s go to the other side, crying. It’s one of the things that’s come up on the show before, and I think a great introduction to this, Bonni, is our daughter Did a bit on my podcast many years ago. She’s much older now, but we had a conversation about her opening an episode about reducing drama with kids. And she had some words about crying. Hey, Hannah.

Dave Stachowiak [00:08:46]:

How old are you right now?

Mike Caulfield [00:08:48]:

3.

Dave Stachowiak [00:08:49]:

What is it like to be 3?

Hannah Stachowiak [00:08:51]:

You need help from mommy and daddy.

Dave Stachowiak [00:08:54]:

You do need help from mommy and daddy. Don’t you?

Hannah Stachowiak [00:08:57]:

Yes.

Dave Stachowiak [00:08:58]:

What’s the best part of being 3? Oh, I love that part. Wait. What’s the worst part of being 3?

Hannah Stachowiak [00:09:10]:

Crying.

Dave Stachowiak [00:09:11]:

Oh, you don’t like crying? No. Me neither. So I have a question for you. What? What’s something we’ve taught you?

Hannah Stachowiak [00:09:22]:

Do podcast by myself.

Dave Stachowiak [00:09:24]:

How to do a podcast by yourself?

Hannah Stachowiak [00:09:27]:

Yes.

Dave Stachowiak [00:09:27]:

It’s funny. I don’t remember that, but this is related to that.

Hannah Stachowiak [00:09:31]:

Oh.

Dave Stachowiak [00:09:32]:

Today, we’re gonna do an episode. We’re gonna teach parents How to be better teachers and leaders for their kids. What do you think about that? So we have to tell them what it is. Are you ready?

Hannah Stachowiak [00:09:44]:

Yes.

Dave Stachowiak [00:09:45]:

Okay. Here’s what to say.

Hannah Stachowiak [00:09:46]:

What

Dave Stachowiak [00:09:47]:

Say, this is coaching for leaders.

Hannah Stachowiak [00:09:50]:

This is coaching for leaders.

Dave Stachowiak [00:09:53]:

Episode 310.

Hannah Stachowiak [00:09:55]:

This is 10310.

Dave Stachowiak [00:09:58]:

Yay. She still remembers that conversation. And in fact, ironically, not knowing we were gonna be recording this today, Bonni asked me if I would play that for her last night now that she’s, what, 6, 7 years older than she was when that happened. And, you know, I think about crying. It’s, Of course, something she remembers of being tough about being 3. I’d say she still would say that’s a tough thing about life. And it’s also hard for those of us who are a bit older than that too.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:10:31]:

The next clip we’re gonna hear, I have heard From more people about over email than perhaps any other moment in teaching in higher ed history. And I think it’s just because it strikes People’s hearts that, you know, it can be so so painful to get those course evaluations. And actually, we had a Last minute scheduling change for one of the episodes, and I just came to you casually and said, hey, why don’t we just talk about how how I go through Course evaluation is the process that I use, and I had no idea the kind of emotion that this particular comment would evoke in me. And you had been asking me through the process I go through with course evaluations, the part about what is using or I had questions about or something that disappointed me, and this was one part of my answer to that question. Oh my gosh. This next one, I’ll read it word for word. The only thing that disappointed me is that for the poster sessions, you didn’t walk around And look at everyone’s posters. I know we all spent money on materials and put time into them and would have liked you to at least see it in person.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:11:41]:

This one’s so hard. So I had combined both of the sections of the classes together Mhmm. And we put on an awesome event. We had, I think, almost a 100 people there, and there were alumni coming, and there were business Professionals coming, we did a Facebook live thing that I blogged about that, like, went crazy bad and to post about all my Facebook live Failures because

Dave Stachowiak [00:12:03]:

it was because it was 90 degree angle the wrong way.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:12:06]:

Yeah. But I just I saw this, and I was so sad. I was so sad because I

Bonni Stachowiak [00:12:12]:

thought I watched the whole video, and I was so proud of all of you. I smiled from ear to ear As I watched every single clip of that video on on its side, and I did it in private Mhmm. And that they wouldn’t have known that I would have put that much effort into celebrating their Learning made me so sad. Mhmm. So sad. And then especially talking about them spending money, and I know Some of our students just don’t have a lot of Bonni, and that they wouldn’t have known that I treasured that.

Mike Caulfield [00:12:52]:

Mhmm.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:12:52]:

We Dave a student who’s a professional photographer. Took these amazing pictures, and I just smiled ear to ear at just celebrating their learning, but I wasn’t purposeful enough about getting to every single booth. I don’t even know if that would have been possible because there were so many of them, and the event wasn’t really that long. So I just have to think about this for next time of

Bonni Stachowiak [00:13:15]:

I never wanna read that on a comment again.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:13:18]:

It still makes me so sad.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:13:21]:

Yeah. The next lesson is about showing up. And before I get to it though, I I just wanted to sort Preview an episode I invited Karen Costa to come back and talk about. I saw she wrote a chapter for a book about An educator’s scope of practice. How do I know what’s mine? And it’s in a book about trauma informed Teaching, and it just reminds me actually, I to get that clip timed right, Dave, I went back and listened to the parts just before this section, and

Bonni Stachowiak [00:13:54]:

it was like, That’s really sad too. I mean, it

Bonni Stachowiak [00:13:57]:

was kind of a really sad episode overall. It just so much when you care so deeply, When you want to have that care show up in ways that are healthy the part before that I had completely forgotten about it, but was just how Triggering, I find this idea that I’m too nice because a person had broken up with me, and then I didn’t get closure out of that relationship, and then he decides to tell someone years later that he broke up

Bonni Stachowiak [00:14:24]:

with me because I was too nice. And I don’t know if

Bonni Stachowiak [00:14:26]:

you remember that Conversation where we both ultimately decided how nice it is because you also had someone give you feedback, an old girlfriend give you feedback. So, you know, if anyone’s ever told anyone listening

Bonni Stachowiak [00:14:36]:

out there that You’re too nice.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:14:37]:

I gotta tell you, being married to someone who is also quote unquote too nice is a really wonderful way to go through life. But, It’s

Dave Stachowiak [00:14:44]:

pretty nice, you know.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:14:46]:

Oh, it’s so, so nice. The next lesson that has arisen so often in All of these conversations I’ve been able to have all these years has to do with showing up, and what an honor it was to speak with Clint Smith Way back on episode 141, and early in the episode, he speaks about his book of poems, And then so graciously reads one of them for us.

Clint Smith [00:15:16]:

The book is sort of I tell people that it is Wrestling with what is the the marathon of cognitive dissonance that it is to grow up as a young black person in this country, and how does one reconcile that ever present tense Between growing up in a home in which you feel loved, affirmed, and celebrated, and then going out into a world in which you are constantly rendered a caricature of fear, and how does one hold those sort of complicated dualities at once and recognize that neither is singularly definitive of of one’s experience, but both are important. Both the the joy that that a community experiences and the violence that it is subjected to. And so the book is Kind of moving back and forth between those spaces. And so I’ll read a poem from the book called What the Cicada Said to The Black Boy. It’s a one of several poems in which I have these sort of, nonhuman or nonliving or inanimate objects speaking to Black boys in the same vein that my parents did. Right? And so part of what I’m thinking about in the book is the ways in which black parents have to Categorically different raise their children in different ways than than their white counterparts in an effort to make sure that their children are safe. And for me, I grew up in a very mixed race, mixed income community. I had black friends, white friends, Asian friends.

Clint Smith [00:16:34]:

It was wonderful. It was like the Disney Channel. And my dad would always say, I really appreciate and love that you have such a diverse group of friends. I love that you have Such a beautifully reflective community of of the American tapestry, but part of what you have to understand is that the implications For the decisions that you make might be very different for you than they are for your other friends. When you’re a kid, you don’t understand that. You’re just kinda like, you’re the mean dad. You’re the strict dad. Why can’t you be more like Tommy’s dad? And it’s not until something like Tamir Rice happens.

Clint Smith [00:17:03]:

The young boy who was killed a 12 year old boy who was killed in Cleveland, Ohio for playing with a toy gun In a park, in an open, carried state when no one else was around him, so obviously, layers and layers of, issues of that case. And that’s all to say that I I was thinking a lot about the the fear that that black parents sort of carry with them, And and then the ways in which that fear shapes the sort of pedagogy of their parenting. And so as a sort of artistic endeavor, I imagine what these other objects might say In in the sort of proverbial talk to young Black boys, and this is one of those Bonni. What the cicadas said to the Black boy, I’ve seen what they make of you, how they render you a multiplicity of mistakes. They have undone me as well, pulled back my shell and feasted on my flesh, Claimed it was for their survival and they wonder why I only show my face every 17 years, but you, you’re lucky if they let you live that long. I can teach you some things, you know? I’ve been playing this game since before you knew what breath was. This here is prehistoric. Why you think we fly? Why you think we roll in packs? You think these swarms are for the fun of it? I would tell you that you don’t roll deep enough, but every time you swarm, they shoot.

Clint Smith [00:18:16]:

Get you some wings, Bonni. Get you some wings.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:18:19]:

What an honor it was to get to speak with Clint Smith. He along with so many others has shaped my thinking and expanded my imagination, Both in terms of filling it with hope and also filling it with understandable horror at the history and current reality in our country. And he also mentioned in that interview about a pedagogy of parenting. And Dave, that just got me thinking about you and I hadn’t really remembered that Phrase coming together. I’m very grateful for you, Dave, and our collective pedagogy of parenting. I’m also reflecting as I listen back on his interview On my gratitude toward the librarians and the teachers at our kids’ school, and for the ways in which each of you are shaping our kids’ lives in an attempt To reconcile our own positionality with where so many other people find themselves in this world.

Dave Stachowiak [00:19:14]:

Thank you for the kind words and as I think about that clip earlier about the tooth fairy. Speaking of thinking deeply, You changed my thinking on this, both on the tooth fairy and on Santa Claus and a few other things of, like, what does Reality look like? What does fiction look like? And, like, how do you have those conversations with kids? And I would have gone down a very different route as a parent if you hadn’t helped me to think critically about those, and I’m so grateful for them, especially looking at how our kids now have emerged. I mean, they’re always emerging as are all of us, but now late in elementary school, getting into middle school, and how they view and think about and shape the world, It’s really, really cool. And if we go a step further on thinking deeply, so many of the conversations that you’ve had have helped all of us think deeply. I love listening to the your episodes, even though I’m not a teacher in a traditional sense. I’m teaching all the time and the work I do with our members, and so I’m always exploring and thinking about new topics that you bring up. And Derek Brough reached out and shared about an episode with Betsy Barry about course evaluations that also got him thinking.

Derek Bruff [00:20:34]:

Hi, Bonni. This is Derek Bruff, host of the Intentional Teaching podcast and a former podcast guest on Teaching in Higher Ed. I’m sending in a big congratulations on your 5 100th episode. As a fellow podcaster, I know how much work it is to Put on a show like this and hitting 500 episodes is just really remarkable and a real gift to the higher education teaching community. For my episode that still resonates, I’m gonna go way back to February 2016. You talked with Betsy Barry in episode 89. She had done a deep dive into the research on student course evaluations, and you had her on to talk about that research. And she did such an amazing job of presenting a really complex Subject.

Derek Bruff [00:21:15]:

There’s lots of conflicting messages in that research, and she did such a great job of distilling that into something Practical and useful, but still representative of the complexity of the topic. That episode came out shortly before we launched our old Leading Lines podcast, and I think it did A lot to inform me as to how we could treat hard and complex topics with care and nuance in our podcast. And so thank you for Giving us that episode and giving us the gift of your podcast. Congrats.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:21:43]:

Derek, thank you for the kind words. And I so concur with the ways in which Betsy Barry Gets us to think deeply about things. When she came on to talk about the course workload estimator, boy, that episode Went into so many other things that I had never anticipated coming up in that type of a conversation. I once was able to be on a panel with her for Inside Higher Ed, Talking about HyFlex learning. And each and every time I’ve ever had a opportunity to have a conversation with her, she’s getting me to think so deeply. She really is emblematic of this this thing that teaching in higher ed has done for so many of us over all of these years. A similar note, Maha Bali called in to share about the ways in which a former guest, someone who she’s actually Collaborated with previously got her to think again.

Maha Bali [00:22:37]:

I’m Maha Bali, episode number 475. This episode resonated with me so much. The person who’s on the episode was Mia Zamora, who is a frequent coauthor with me, and we’ve written a lot together on intentionally Global Hospitality. And amazingly, while listening to that episode, she talks about stuff that we’ve been writing together, and I realized But she actually had a slightly different perspective on one of the things that we were working on than I had beforehand. So one of the dimensions Or the phases of intentionally equitable hospitality is sustaining community beyond the moment. And what I usually mean when I say sustaining community beyond the moment is I’m thinking about professional development of adults, and it’s talking about how Virtually connecting, which was connected to conferences, required us to sustain community between 1 conference and another Through things like Slack and Twitter and personal communication and so on. Whereas, Mia’s understanding of it was how do you sustain community After a class is over, so a course in a semester in a university is over, and she’s also the director of A master’s program. So she was thinking about sustaining community within the master’s program and beyond the master’s program.

Maha Bali [00:23:50]:

So her interpretation of this Term that we both use very often was quite different from mine. So I learned from the episode things that for some reason had not come up in conversation between us.

Dave Stachowiak [00:24:02]:

Bonni, there’s an element of humility that I think shows up for both of us. I don’t know. I feel like it shows up more and more for me over the years of hosting a podcast. Like, I realize how much I don’t know, and sometimes we discover that in the moment, and sometimes we find that out afterwards. And, Rob Eaton has a few words about sharing a time that you made a mistake and how he felt about it.

Rob Eaton [00:24:30]:

Bonni, this is Rob Eaton, and I hope it’s alright that the moment I choose is from a podcast episode I was Bonni. Was the 2nd time you had Bonnie Moon and me on, and you were sharing an insight from someone who had written a book and said he’s an Astrology. And then you said, oh my gosh. I can’t remember. And then I jumped in with astronomist, which is not even a word. I meant astronomer. And we went off on a tangent about vulnerability. And, I I urged you.

Rob Eaton [00:24:58]:

I made my pitch to keep this bit in, And you did to your tremendous credit. It was a great example of how vulnerable and authentic and real you are as a host. And it’s that authenticity That gets your guests to open up and communicate with you in a different way that I think is the hallmark of success of your show. In the process, incidentally, you model for all of us teachers how we can do the same thing in our classrooms. Show our students that it’s alright to make mistakes and to be real. And in the process, make our classrooms a safe place for learning. Congratulations on 500 episodes of a fantastic podcast, and thanks for letting me be part of

Bonni Stachowiak [00:25:37]:

As I reflect back on 500 episodes, it really is those times when I’ve allowed an edit not To drop on the editing floor as the expression goes, I think back to the conversation I was able to have with Ken Bonni. And Ken Bain, his book was the 1st book that I ever read about teaching in a higher education context Specifically, I was so nervous to talk to that man, and just, I mean, he also I found out later. I don’t know if nervous would be the right word, but he wasn’t as familiar with podcasting as a platform. So he mentioned that, Oh, he had actually wanted to say something. I was thinking, hey, this isn’t like radio. We could actually add that back in. And so He started saying all these names that now Dave are so familiar to me, but I was typing so fast. At the time, it all sounded completely Unknown to me.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:26:31]:

And so he said Eric Mazur, and he talked about the Minerva prize and how he had won Half $1,000,000 and all this thing, and I’m thinking, okay. Okay. And I’m thinking, don’t tell me too many things before I press record because I don’t have good short term memory. So I go back And I press record and I say, tell me about this manure award. And of course, autocorrect had changed Changed, I think, Minerva to manure or Mazor to manure. That sounds more like it. But nonetheless, out of that came away of celebrating public failures. And on episode 100, we gave away the manure award, which coincidentally went to Maha Bali who shared just a Couple stories ago.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:27:15]:

Spoiler alert, if you go back and listen to that episode, you already know who won. But, yes, the generosity with which people have been willing to share Failures and struggles has been so overwhelming. And another way in which I have just felt overwhelmed is the ways in which people have helped To connect generously. And I would say, I don’t like to pick the most because there’s always there’s always like, when you, Like picking a favorite, it’s impossible. But, a person who has truly changed my life, and I do not say that as any sort of an exaggeration, is James Lang, and I invited him to call and share a reflection on an episode, and he did even more than that. This is James Lang.

James Lang [00:28:00]:

Congratulations, Bonni, on your 5 100th episode. I have been Bonni guest on the podcast, I think, 6 times now, So it’s hard for me to identify a particular episode, but I will say what I’ve said in print and to many other people, you’ve done an incredible service to the profession by having so many incredible guests on the show. And in every role I occupy professionally As a teacher, a faculty developer, a writer, an editor, and just as someone who has to get work done every day, I have learned from you and for your guests, and from the the people, the conversations, and the resources they Dave shared, And all the ideas that sort of come out of the conversations that you sort of direct so artfully. So congratulations on your 500th episode, and I look forward to 500 more.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:28:51]:

Jim, I got to first speak with you back in 2014, and I cannot begin to tell you the ways in which The people that you connected me with, your books, the times I wrote to you and asked for advice confidentially, what a difference this has made and just to hear your words to say that anything I would have done would have helped you learn is truly, staggering to me, And I think it truly comes out of the early generosity you provided, not just to me, but I mean, you just provide so generously to this community. You make higher education better, and thank you for the ways in which you’ve done that for the students I’m privileged to serve And so many students from around the world, and thank you for taking time out of the day to to share that that so thoughtful message that I’m gonna treasure forever.

Dave Stachowiak [00:29:40]:

I think I’ve lost count, Bonni, of how many times I’ve heard Jim’s name in conversations we have had around the house and in professional contacts and personal ones too over the years. Thank you, Jim. And he certainly helped connect so many people in this community. And, Bonni, you’ve done the same too for lots of people, and, I think this is a really wonderful message from Karen Caldwell sharing her experience listening to an episode.

Karen Caldwell [00:30:08]:

I’m Karen Caldwell, and on episode 432, top tools for learning, Bonni casually mentioned my TEDx talk about a strategy I’m developing called learning out loud. And folks hearing my name spoken by Bonni and learning that She had used my talk in a PD session with new faculty remains a big, big turning point for me as an educator, and It literally made me cry on the spot. And I know that’s a selfish reason for choosing an episode, but it comes from my heart, and it speaks volumes to why Bonni is such a phenomenal person. So Bonni, yes, has, recorded 500 podcasts, and she’s done so much more than that incredible feat. And she’s She’s this unique combination of knowledge of higher education teaching and learning and skills for organizing our lives and living a balanced life. And Most of all, what speaks volumes to me is her openness and generosity that she demonstrates in her podcast interviews, But also behind the scenes, she has answered probably 2 or 3 emails of mine in the past from my life overseas Where I really needed a lifeline and she provided really helpful information and has just been so generous to someone that she didn’t know. And for me to hear her mention my name that casually, just meant the world to me. So a big congratulations, Bonni.

Karen Caldwell [00:31:32]:

You’re an amazing person, and We all love you very much.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:31:36]:

Karen’s message cracks me up. She knows this, but I I thought there were 2 Karen Caldwells. So there was the Karen Caldwell who would reach out and ask me for help or advice, and then there was the one that was really, really famous who I would hope someday would be willing to come on my

Bonni Stachowiak [00:31:52]:

And when I found it it was the same person, I was like, what is happening?

Dave Stachowiak [00:31:57]:

Oh my gosh. I don’t think I knew that.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:32:00]:

Yeah. There are not

Bonni Stachowiak [00:32:01]:

I mean, I’m sure there’s lots of Karen Codewell’s, but in terms of this universe, there was just 1.

Dave Stachowiak [00:32:06]:

Yes. So funny. Thank you, Karen. What a gracious and Generous message.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:32:10]:

Alright. So Dave and I are gonna be taking a brief break. You won’t even know that we took a break because through the magic of podcasting, this will get edited out. But we are about to have our 2 kids join us for today’s recommendations segment to help us celebrate 500 episodes of Teaching in Higher Ed. We’ll be right back. This is the time in the show where we each get to share our recommendations, and I believe first, Luke would like to Celebrate something?

Luke Stachowiak [00:32:39]:

Congratulations on 500 episodes.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:32:42]:

Okay, Luke. And I understand that you have a Book that you would like to recommend Dave. What is the name of the book?

Luke Stachowiak [00:32:48]:

Yes. The book is called The Bitter Side of Sweet.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:32:51]:

And how did you first hear about this book?

Luke Stachowiak [00:32:54]:

I found out about this book. I’m in 6th grade, and my reading teacher told it to me, and I really liked it.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:33:02]:

And you really liked it. And How where where does this book take place? What do what do we know about the character? Is it fiction? How many questions can I ask you at once?

Luke Stachowiak [00:33:14]:

This book is realistic fiction, and I’m not sure where it takes place.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:33:19]:

Oh, okay. And what’s happening with some of the characters?

Luke Stachowiak [00:33:23]:

They get taken to these cocoa farms where they’re forced to Get the cocoa seeds from trees and climb and take them off. And it’s actually really dangerous, but they still do it.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:33:35]:

Yes. And so it’s a it’s a realistic fiction, and what is it realistically showing the readers? What what kind of both it’s both a crime and also a A bad thing that happens in terms of human rights, what is it conveying? Child slavery. Yes. Yes. So is it all where you feel like crying every single page, or are there other kinds of feelings that you have when you’re reading the book?

Luke Stachowiak [00:34:00]:

There are other feelings, Especially when they get good food, like, when they get a good harvest for the day, they get rewarded.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:34:13]:

And, so you would recommend it. What what kind of people do you think would would enjoy reading a book like this?

Luke Stachowiak [00:34:18]:

I think the people who would like reading this book is people who like a lot of action in books because there’s a lot of action in this book.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:34:25]:

Okay. I

Bonni Stachowiak [00:34:25]:

remember you told me you thought I would like too.

Luke Stachowiak [00:34:27]:

Yeah.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:34:28]:

And it’s 1 that I need to put on the list so I don’t forget about it because it sounded really important to read and one that would catch my attention and teach me a lot too.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:34:37]:

Thanks for coming and helping me celebrate episode 500, Luke.

Luke Stachowiak [00:34:40]:

You’re welcome.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:34:42]:

Hannah has now joined us. And Hannah, welcome back to Teaching in Higher Ed.

Hannah Stachowiak [00:34:48]:

Hi.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:34:49]:

I didn’t tell you this in advance, but We actually played a clip from daddy’s podcast from when you were 3. You remember that one? Because even though that didn’t happen on my podcast, it’s still one of my favorite family podcasting moments we’ve ever had. And here you are all these years later, and now you have a book That you wanna recommend, what book would you like to recommend to the listening community?

Hannah Stachowiak [00:35:13]:

I would like to recommend From the Desk of Zoe Washington.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:35:18]:

And what can you tell people about this book? What kind of book is it?

Hannah Stachowiak [00:35:22]:

From the Desk of Zoe Washington is a realistic fiction book about a girl named Zoe Washington has been separated from her birth dad since he’s been born because her dad was accused of being in prison, And and she’s gotten her 1st letter on her 12th birthday, and He’s determined to and her dad says that he’s innocent, and he’s determined to find The alibi witness to prove and free her dad from prison.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:35:57]:

Yes. And there are so many thing. We actually got to read this one together. Luke’s book, I haven’t read yet. But we not only got to read this one together, we read the follow-up book too. So I don’t remember what that one was called.

Hannah Stachowiak [00:36:08]:

On Air with Zoe Washington.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:36:11]:

Which we had no idea. Dave, I don’t even know if you know about this. The 2nd book ends up having a podcasting theme, which is kind of funny if think about it because of the family that we are from. But yes. So we learn a lot in this book about prison. We learn a lot about

Hannah Stachowiak [00:36:29]:

Exonerees.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:36:30]:

Exonerees. We learn a lot about family relationships, Early new businesses, about letter writing and hard stuff, and oh my gosh, you know one of the parts I love about it. Do you remember what like, in his letters, what does he share with his daughter?

Hannah Stachowiak [00:36:50]:

Music.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:36:52]:

Yes. So there’s a whole playlist, And Hannah and I, every time, would save the songs as the dad would send new song recommendations. And as the young people say today, the music really slaps. Oh, I wish people could see Hannah’s face. Did I use that expression well?

Hannah Stachowiak [00:37:13]:

I didn’t understand what it meant.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:37:15]:

Oh, well then that means I’m not quite as hip on the lingo as today. I think it means it’s good music. Good good music. That’s not people don’t say that anymore? No. No. Okay. I’ll work on it. Hannah, is there anything else you wanna tell people about the book?

Hannah Stachowiak [00:37:33]:

No.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:37:34]:

Thank you for coming back and helping me celebrate 500 years 500 years Or 500 episodes of Teaching in Higher Ed. Thanks, Hannah. For both Andrew’s sake and for anyone who has been listening and disturbed by the noise makers, that will be the last time this episode contains any noise making correct, Dave?

Dave Stachowiak [00:37:59]:

Unless I go off the deep end here in just a few moments. You never know.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:38:03]:

You never know.

Dave Stachowiak [00:38:03]:

Very unpredictable.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:38:05]:

Promise that, I guess. Dave, I’m my ears are still ringing.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:38:09]:

I understand that you also have

Bonni Stachowiak [00:38:11]:

a book that you would like to recommend. We are in a book kind of a of a theme today.

Dave Stachowiak [00:38:15]:

We are. And I can’t believe, by the way, she did that off the top of her head. I was listening and I was thinking it almost sounds like she’s reading something, but she’s just it’s incredible how much she took in from that book. And I have a related book recommendation thinking about parenting and also thinking about that clip that you shared earlier with her about crying all those years ago. That was an introduction to an episode I aired with Tina Payne Bryson on how to reduce drama with kids. We have a friend who’s a psychologist, and I years ago, When the kids were really young, I asked him for a book recommendation on parenting, and he said anything by Dan Siegel or Tina Payne Bryson It’s a great book. And I came across the book from them, no drama discipline, and it is a book I still think about almost every day. It shapes So much of my actions and intentions as a parent, and it’s fascinating to me how much of the research and The practices have changed from the conventional wisdom that I think a lot of us knew when we were young.

Dave Stachowiak [00:39:27]:

Just one example of I think almost all of us have heard the mantra of ignore a temper tantrum. And Tina and Daniel in their work and their research show that no, actually, that’s not the best way to do it. Actually, to help a child calm down and to help them to, get in a place where they can hear something because they can’t handle that while their brain is on overload. And it just it’s just one of probably a dozen things that, like, really changed my Thinking about parenting, and I owe so much of, like, the relationship we have with our kids today to her work and the The research they’ve done and just how beautifully they present in the book. So if that’s something that’s if you have young people in your life and you have a heart for thinking about what does that relationship look like, and what does really good healthy discipline look like. No drama discipline by Dan Siegel and Tina Payne Bryson is a great read. And Bonni, I’m sure we’ll include a link to the interview. I was fortunate to do with her too.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:40:26]:

Absolutely. And I will say that it Completely changed my thinking as well. It is one thing to change one’s thinking and another to change one’s behaviors. And, Dave, you are so Gifted at this and so good at it. I’ve learned so much from you, and I know I have so much more I can continue to get to learn As I just watch you parent, you are an absolute magnificent dad and

Dave Stachowiak [00:40:50]:

parent, and

Bonni Stachowiak [00:40:52]:

I learn from you every day.

Dave Stachowiak [00:40:54]:

I feel the same way about you, and we I think one of the blessings of I always think of the challenges of being a single parent and how hard it is, like, The 2 of us fully aligned and working together and bringing our strengths. And one of the joys of having a partner parenting is that You each get to bring your different strengths to the interactions and the energy and the frustration and all those things, and I’m really grateful that we have that in our relationship.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:41:22]:

I’m gonna close this out Dave. For my recommendation, I’d like to recommend the book Viral Justice, How We Grow the World We Want by Ruha Benjamin. And of course, we didn’t necessarily know what each other was going to recommend, and you hadn’t heard all the clips. And isn’t it amazing how all this weaves together? Ruha Benjamin shows in the book how these seemingly small things that we might Do these decisions we might make or habits that we might, adopt can spread in similar ways to viruses and have exponentially positive effects. She shares very vulnerably about her father’s death And the ways in which the chronic stresses that happening that happen from weathering racism Impact communities and cultures. She also talks about the her brother’s experience in the criminal justice system And the traumas experienced there, and she’s just so vulnerable and and wanting to demand justice And doing so with both challenging readers and also being a person of hope. She talks about the ways in which Things like doulas or midwives help to keep black mothers and babies alive and well. And, the in the book description, they talk about her Stubborn hopefulness.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:42:48]:

And I think that’s such a great description of what she is urging us to do, those things that are necessary, those things that are formative. And how do we build a more just world, one full of joy and one transforming relationships and communities. I want to recommend everyone pick up Viral Justice, How We Grow the World We Want. I know it’s been Recommended by at least 1 other person on the show. And I I read it and highly recommend it to listeners. And just Bonni thank for listening. And, Dave, thank you for celebrating a 100 I keep saying a 100 years, 10000 years. That’s another song.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:43:33]:

Today’s episode was produced by me, Bonni Stachowiak. It was edited by the ever talented Andrew Kroeger. Podcast Production support was provided by the amazing Sierra Priest. And if you have yet to sign up for my weekly emails, head over To teachinginhighered.com/subscribe. You won’t have to remember to go to the show notes to get all these amazing links in today’s episode. A lot of amazing links, if I do say so myself. You’ll also get some other goodies that don’t show up on those show notes. So do that now, And I just wanna say thank you to this entire community, 500 episodes.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:44:14]:

As Alan Levine said, let’s do 500 more.

Teaching in Higher Ed transcripts are created using a combination of an automated transcription service and human beings. This text likely will not represent the precise, word-for-word conversation that was had. The accuracy of the transcripts will vary. The authoritative record of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcasts is contained in the audio file.