How to Know Our Audience in an AI World, with Jennifer Coon

Bonni Stachowiak [00:00:00]:

Today on episode number 496 of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, How to Know One’s Audience in an AI World, with Jennifer Coon. Welcome to this episode of Teaching in Higher Ed. I’m Bonnie Stachovia, and this is the space where we explore the art and science of being more effective at facilitating learning. We also share ways to improve our productivity approaches so we can have more peace in our lives and be even more present for our students. Jennifer Coon is the director of the Mitchell Business Communications Lab and faculty at the University of Michigan Dearborn College of Business. She has taught college level rhetoric and research writing for several decades. Currently, she teaches business English at the university level And while in Germany, taught executives at Bosch, Fiat GM, Porsche, and Mercedes. She volunteers to write for Humble Design Detroit, a local nonprofit, and is also a small business owner.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:01:21]:

Jennifer Coon, welcome to Teaching in Higher Ed.

Jennifer Coon [00:01:24]:

Thank you, Bonnie. I’m so glad to be here to talk to you today.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:01:27]:

I have mentioned in previous episodes That one of the somewhat unique things about me is I always have a soundtrack of music that’s playing in my head. And the other night, I was on our campus. We were there in the evening and having dinner in the cafe, and another student I found another student who always has music playing in their head. I know that you do enjoy listening to music. If we were to maybe get a glimpse at what you’ve been listening to lately, are there any things that are playing on your soundtrack in your car in your house or anything like that?

Jennifer Coon [00:01:58]:

That’s such a great question. I think because of my jealousy with my children attending great concerts this summer, I’ve been doing the Spotify list for Beyonce and for Taylor Swift just because I felt like I didn’t really know them. But I wholeheartedly Agree with the idea of having this soundtrack to your life. And so I have those moments, like you said, especially walking around campus where, like, Sam Cook is playing in my head or, you know, Van Morrison. Like, just those backdrop songs that I think really sort of Resonate and make the moment seem really just solidified for me. So, yeah, I I get that feeling too.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:02:36]:

We just were last night having dinner And there’s a old fashioned movie theater across the street and saw the sign for the Taylor Swift era is the documentary of it and everything. So our daughter thinks that she wants to go, and then we looked at how long it is. And I’m like, I guess she’s like, I like listening to music, and I’m thinking, mean, I’ve never seen it. I don’t know. But I was like, oh, it seems like a long movie for a 9 year old. But

Jennifer Coon [00:03:01]:

Oh, I feel like it’s the concert version for people who didn’t really wanna go to the concert, Spend the money or time. So

Bonni Stachowiak [00:03:07]:

Did you see it?

Jennifer Coon [00:03:09]:

No. Not yet.

Jennifer Coon [00:03:10]:

It’s on my list.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:03:11]:

Yeah.

Jennifer Coon [00:03:12]:

We’ll see. I might I might make it halfway through.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:03:14]:

Yeah. It’s always hard to know, like, would it be better streaming, or should I go to the theater? I haven’t even been to a movie theater since before the pandemic hit. So it’s been a it has been a minute since I’ve been. I forgot what it’s like. They have popcorn in there, though I know that. I know that. Yeah. So music.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:03:32]:

The reason that we started out with music is that I got to hear you. I got to actually facilitate a panel that you were on, use what I consider to be a really powerful example having to do with music. And when we talk about asking people to cite their sources. What what can you tell us about about the example that you use here?

Jennifer Coon [00:03:56]:

Sure. So I’m always interested in talking with students about How they got to the point that they’re at today whether it comes to their composition or their thoughts. And if you go back to the concept that we all hold True that writing is thinking, the moment that they put pen to paper or fingers to keyboard, they’re they’re kind of constructing out of everything that they’ve learned up until that Point. And sometimes they’re surprised by what comes out, whether it’s song lyrics or a response to a reading or something like that. And so I’m I’m often Curious about what we tell students. I think that the education that drives to them that source materials important In the academic writing world that you need to have layered sources, but a really strong voice and give credit to everyone It’s a very highly organized way for them to include strength to their research, to their argument, to whatever it is they want to say by talking about what’s Before them. So, joining the conversation is what we say in the world of rhetoric. And so joining that conversation It’s often difficult when it comes to sources that have really informed you.

Jennifer Coon [00:05:05]:

And if you wanna think about that in terms of musicians, They’re the ones who pick up a guitar for the 1st time or sit down at a piano and maybe just start strumming that they’ve something that they’ve heard before. So the idea is that everything that’s been in their ear up until that point has somehow informed what it is they’re creating now. So there’s a finite number of chords on the piano. So are you creating something if you’re using, you know, 5 finger d chord That someone else used 300 years ago. So I think that there’s such a difference between what we teach students In the academic world of writing and cataloging ideas versus what they feel when it comes to creativity, when it comes to music, when it comes to Incorporating their ideas with others’ ideas. You will hear DJs talk about this for decades. So they might not have written the song by Rihanna or Stevie Wonder or Kendrick Lamar, but they’re the ones who, for the first time are listening to those samples who say, wow. This beat, this melody really sounds like this one.

Jennifer Coon [00:06:12]:

This would really complement it here. The the vocals are strong in this piece where the the drumbeat and the bass are stronger in this piece. And so the way they weave them together, It’s really a moment of creativity. It’s really a moment of originality, and I think that’s where people will maybe argue that. But they’re the ones who are seeing that connection for the 1st time, and that to me is if we parlay it into the world of writing and composition In communications, that’s the new learning right there because no one else supposedly has ever sat down with the number of sources that you have, With a number of ideas that you’ve had and we’ll open them together in that way. So I think that’s as we introduce generative AI text into this equation, it becomes It’s even more complicated for students in terms of ownership, in terms of citation, in terms of originality, in terms of creation. So we’re taking a bundle of of ideas and sources and creators. And I think that CHAT gpt and the one that our university has created for students is kind of throwing that concept on its head.

Jennifer Coon [00:07:22]:

And just as we try to tell students, You know, this is what is the best path for using sources or referencing them or using them to inform your work. The path kind of changes and we’re all sort of lost again trying to find our way through the woods.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:07:38]:

I try to be very intentional in Limiting the number of parenting analogies I use, but I can’t resist right now because one of the things we work try to teach our kids is that being bored can actually be a good thing, and being bored can can spark creativity. And also some Executive function, I think, can develop out of that that sense of how does one solve one’s own problem of being bored, you know, that kind of thing. And I really treasure my mom. She Sort of taught that she ingrained that in me. I can’t ever really think of a time that I am bored. I do find some people boring, but I’m usually Generally able to escape that. I mean, I don’t have that happen very often, but but yeah. So I I similarly wonder about this idea because this just happened to one of our kids.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:08:29]:

They they got ill at actually, our entire family got ill and it’s The ill had stretched over 6 weeks. We decided to all get COVID, but instead of at the same time, just 1 week at a time so it couldn’t just be done and over with. But anyway, so he missed a little bit of school in the beginning and was experiencing that, you know, this this, by the way, was a story shared by my husband. Didn’t actually witness this firsthand, but just that experience of it had been a while since he had written a piece. And then sitting down with that blank slate, I thought the the way that Dave shared that story with me afterward was just like sitting with someone who’s experiencing some emotions. And again, I don’t wanna speak for our son. He’s not here to Tell his own story, but I know there were big feelings. I know that was that was an evening with some big feelings, probably also because of missing school, and he’s a highly responsible person and felt some pressure there.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:09:21]:

But then also just I know I feel that way. When I sit down to write something, it By the way, Jennifer, was the one of the ways I can first remember ever using a generative AI tool akin to chat GPT. I accidentally did it. So in the last year, our university has reorganized. And so now the accreditation that the Accreditation liaison officer reports to me at my institution, so I was just trying to figure out in this new note taking tool Mhmm. How do I make a heading 2 instead of a heading 2? Before I know it, it just spits out this incredible announcement about some of the factors and these changes in accrediting and things and everything like that. So All this to say, I I wonder what does the world look like, Jennifer, when we don’t Sit with those feelings of inadequacy or fear or anger or I don’t know how to get started when there’s kind of this Seemingly quick fix kind of a thing that fixes it for me, but then I’m worried, Jennifer, about It fixes it using their voice, and then I feel like mine is worth that much less. So what what are you Thinking about these days in terms of the value of the blank slate, because I also know there is value when I have used now ChatGPT and other AIs to come in, and maybe it’s I I don’t know.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:10:49]:

I don’t know. I’m gonna stop talking because I could keep going and going. I just I see the value of both, but I wonder if we don’t ever Said in our discomfort, are we are we really losing something there in the human development process that we all should continue to do for the rest of our days on the earth?

Jennifer Coon [00:11:07]:

I I I agree completely. I think sitting in discomfort is the best way to describe that feeling. You know, as As a long time teacher, I really want to ease students’ pain, if you want to call it that. I want them to find ways to move from just an idea to a text or move from just a concept to a sentence or two To get some sort of starting point. But I see what you’re saying that inevitably, these aids, any kind of aid really, could jump Start that starting point. You could be into the text already without really knowing it like you said. I think that the value of the blank slate is, a moment or something for us to really watch because I’m fearful that that at this point, My concerns are that the cognition won’t be the subject matter any longer. For students using this kind of software, these kind prompts, this kind of tool, it’ll really be then, how do I craft the right kind of question or prompt To get the right result.

Jennifer Coon [00:12:13]:

So Adam Kaines, one of our brilliant educational designers, has referred to us Quite a several different ways to think about prompt crafting.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:12:21]:

Mhmm.

Jennifer Coon [00:12:22]:

And I love the idea of getting the right question because that’s sort of at the basis of learning and pedagogy and what that’s the right question. But I’m concerned that we’re producing or will produce Students who are in the workplace bringing not content knowledge, but instead, bringing Crafting skills, developing skills, manipulation skills, and I don’t mean manipulation in a negative way. I I mean, you know the software well enough You know what to get out of it. Are you writing a letter to grandma to say thank you for the college money, or are you writing a letter to a fund to say thank you for the scholarship? So that blank slate, really, I think is is skipping over really important step for students, but We can’t deny that this might be the way students are gonna be working in the lower place. They might be creating like this, But I tell you, Bonnie, that’s my main concern really is where’s the content knowledge going because Any source could really inform you to help get past a blank slate. So, again, the music analogy, you’re the songwriter, You just don’t have anything. There’s no mojo that day. It’s nothing is really sitting right with you.

Jennifer Coon [00:13:37]:

You know, go listen to your favorite song. Go listen to your favorite singer. You know, that brings you back to the right mood, the right moment, the right information. And so I like to think of texts, really great texts, whether they are Poems, essays, full length novels, films even, you know, if we’re talking about movies. Those really great texts should inspire you in a way too. And especially if they’re from your field, if they have that density of content knowledge, being familiar with your content knowledge is what should hopefully, There’s the keyword. You know, remove that blank slate from you. But I’m with you.

Jennifer Coon [00:14:14]:

I think kids still need to, like, sit down and be bored and think about what you’re doing and Entertain yourself. Come up with something to fill that slate.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:14:23]:

Boy, your music analogy just keeps offering me even more treasures. I was having a conversation the other day with someone. They were talking about how they had, this is a a person in their late teens talking about what he described as an addiction to gaming. And we were we were talking about it, and I said, gosh, that that That sounds like a lot of hours to spend every day playing games. And he said, yeah. Well, my Family with my my parents were getting divorced. It was a really hard time. So I think about the ways in which just when we can’t sit with our feelings, what do we do with that? And is it alcohol? Is it drugs? Is it gaming? You know, what is it for me, by the way, getting absorbed at a television Showing the binge watching all the things, you know, that that that’s to me that that’s part of this.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:15:16]:

Right, Jennifer? That we we We don’t want to in unhealthy ways. I think there are there’s healthy compartmentalization, but we don’t want to in unhealthy ways try to numb ourselves from our feelings. But then when you went back to the music example, I thought, well, you reminded me of when I was getting my doctorate. And we had 1 professor, for example, who thought it was He actually expressed it as fun to ask us to write 3 30 page papers in an 8 week class, and, like, that was fun for him. And so I I would get I would kinda, like, think of getting myself ready for the, like, the game or whatever. So I would go and I would put into my head just, okay, you gotta get in academic writing. And so I I could read just a page of a few different journal articles, And I felt like I was setting my own brain to write in that style for that for that time period. And so what you’re telling me Or what I’m hearing and what you the examples that you gave there is rather than me having to necessarily have been Trained my brain.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:16:23]:

Okay. It’s time to write in academic style that more so going forward, we’re gonna be training the CHAT g p t to write in academic or sorry. I don’t mean to speak specifically of that one, but, artificial intelligence to a large language model To write in a given style, but in a some way maybe if I’m if I’m understanding you correctly, Jennifer, I almost was doing that, like, to my if you know what I mean, that I I was setting up the prompt, setting up the context for, okay, you’re gonna write in this tone. So that is similar to what we would then go and do for a large language model, but of course, faster and and more effective in in some ways. So Perhaps my glorifying the creative process there and starting with the blank slate is not quite, you know, as as much as I’m thinking because, yeah, the the music example is so powerful pull for me.

Jennifer Coon [00:17:13]:

Mhmm. I completely agree. I think I think it’s it’s so rewarding to think that you are trainable in that way. I often tell the professors that I work with, so I teach writing and communications in a school of business. So they’re Immensely knowledgeable in their fields, and yet I say to them, as a reminder, you’re the ones who are really training these students To be the next economists, to be the next scientists, to be the next accountants, to be the next. And I think that that kind of exposure to the language, To the rituals, to the frameworks of any kind of field, I think are so useful in, like, kind of training you your brain so that you do hopefully, You know, encounter what you said that that it becomes, you know, more recognizable to you, that it becomes more your language. And, Bonnie, you’re right. I think as you as you step into, you know, looking at large language models, like, are we giving that away for free? Are you are you I don’t know.

Jennifer Coon [00:18:12]:

Do you feel that, like, that there’s some contribution that you’re making and that are you getting anything back for it? That’s the part that kind of scares me a little when there’s this gray area about Contributing your knowledge. You’re you’re you’re training yourself in this field and this talk, and yet look at who’s benefiting from it. I mean, it might be half of a nation. It might be an entire program at at a school, but I I I agree. I think it’s a really interesting question about What you get used to and where you, where your tongue sort of starts to flow.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:18:43]:

Yeah. That certainly is a concern. I think what’s haunting me more Mhmm. 2 is twofold. 1 is when there is a vending machine trans Transactional type of a thing that seems like it has Mhmm. A better way of speaking than I do. And I’m not speaking of me In first person, I mean, of students. I I just so I do not want other people that I may teach To think that the way that they speak, the way they write, the way they think is wrong, and they need this thing because they’re inadequate.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:19:19]:

So that’s One concern. And then the 2nd concern goes back to your example of the letter to grandma or the letter for the scholarship. I absolutely think, yes, please, Students sit down and write that letter for the scholarship just as I have now written a couple of letters for A recommendation for promotion and tenure, a course that I customized, but I mean, not first pass, way better than I’m gonna do and way faster than I’m gonna do. And that doesn’t bother me because it’s that distanced, more formal writing anyway. But the letter to the grandma, I think, What I mean, does a person still feel those feelings that when you receive a letter, if the letter wasn’t actually written with the type of intentionality that we tend to historically think of of writing letters. So I guess that’s the twofold. And contributing my knowledge and students’ knowledge freely is on my list, but it’s it’s further down those those ones around voice And and the worthiness of one’s voice and ideas, and then the second one is just the the what does it mean to Take, I guess, these shortcuts when a letter that’s a personal letter is supposed to mean that you didn’t take the shortcut. You know what I mean? That that’s what makes it special that it was written by you not by a bot.

Jennifer Coon [00:20:39]:

Mhmm. I I’m curious to know if the tenure and promotion committee got the same letter from 3 or for people. Right? We’re all of them using, some sort of aid to help them craft this very standard kind of thank you. And so That concerns me a bit. You know, being that my foundation and and studies are in rhetoric, we’re always concerned about the audience is number 1 for us. And so The the method used to get to those feelings, that emotion, that kind of heartfeltness, I think it’s so much easier to do for those that we have this on this for this relationship for and this awareness of how that audience is gonna receive this message. If we’re not so keenly aware about how the audience is going to receive this message, there’s probably less value in the construction of the message itself. So why not AI? Why not have someone else generate it for me? And in fact, my 2 most recent experiences with any kind of generative text Was number 1, I kinda fell into co writing a thank you note for a grant that I wasn’t sure about how to begin or where to start.

Jennifer Coon [00:21:49]:

And my Alex said, oh, don’t worry. I’ve already got it started. And I was like, wow. This is really great. Yeah. I started it with Chatt GPT or some other sort of generative AI. And I was I was taken aback by, like, Am I gonna be part of this? Can I be part of this? How is this going to play upon my audience? There’s concern about the receipt of this message that seemed very standardized. And I think that’s where audiences really are Displeased, you know.

Jennifer Coon [00:22:18]:

There there’s no reward in the the message really when you’ve got these large language models that just kind of pull from it and do something very standard. The 2nd incident I was going to mention was I shouldn’t call it an incident though, should I?

Bonni Stachowiak [00:22:31]:

No. But it sounds so intriguing when you do it though. You absolutely should.

Jennifer Coon [00:22:36]:

I believe me, they stick with me. I mean, this really so this does kind of affect the audience if you’re if I’m the audience member at this point. I got an email from a student who was just really trying to say I’m up I’m apologizing for being absent last week. No big deal. There was some sort of medical issue. And I get those all the time. But this message was 4 paragraphs long, 2 to 3 sentences per paragraph. And it ended with insert your email address here if you wanna talk about this problem even further.

Jennifer Coon [00:23:05]:

And so because I am so concerned about audience and how the message is received. I I more or less said to the student, why did you use this? It it just seems over Overly abundant when it comes to the kind of feelings you want to communicate to a professor you’ve known for a couple of weeks or so about your Authenticity when it comes to the fact that you were really sick. So the hopefully, students understand that their messages are They move into kind of a gray area then if they’re not authentically created, and then if they don’t have that feeling or ideas or voice behind it that you were talking about. And so that’s probably where the loss will be for audiences when their senders are using some kind of generative AI.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:23:52]:

Yeah. That’s that’s wonderful example that you’ve given there. Similarly, I I I construct these reflective Questions that are that are part of an assignment. So in any reading assignment would be read this, take some notes, you know, capture some themes that you drew from it, Some quotes and then we eventually get down to 3 ways that you could apply this. And it is I want to be cautious of thinking that I can discern because I’ve taken enough I’ve read enough that we’re not as savvy at discerning what is or isn’t written by artificial intelligence. But when you have a situation like you just shared, or in my case, apply this to you, and Some of the questions are like, I can’t perform this function for you and it’s Chat GPT telling me that, not the actual student. But something I just wanna call attention to listeners from this the example that you just shared, you reminded me a bit of there’s a book called The Four Agreements. And The Four Agreements, by the way, is a wonderful book for for anyone listening that hasn’t read it before.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:24:58]:

One of the chapters that stays with me for all these years since I read it is to never take anything personally. And I can’t even do the author justice in terms of just Just how rich that is when we can live our lives that way. But rather than getting offended, or maybe you felt offended, Jennifer, but you didn’t allow that to shape your response as the number one thing you were trying to get and lash out with anger, But I in the way that you shared the story was really just helping to shape future behavior, but starting with asking a question instead of Some sort of outrageous claim because we don’t know why someone would feel the need to do that. So asking, can you tell me a little bit about your choice here In that, could get someone to reflect and and make some different choices. Or I think sometimes when we do allow ourselves To get angry and let that flare up, then we can really just shut down not only that particular exchange around that Choice of not considering one’s audience, but also didn’t just shape the relationship such that there’s not going to be any trust where Further growth is possible, you know, when we’re that fearful or angry or whatever the student’s response might have been had you come with the, how dare you, you know, that kind of a thing that sometimes we do have those feelings. So thank you for that really, really powerful, Sometimes we do have those feelings. So thank you for that really really powerful powerful example there with the with the student. I really enjoyed your emphasis here on just thinking about our audience, and I’m intrigued because both you and I teach in business schools.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:26:33]:

And so I tend to think of business writing as the more formal, you know, that kind of thing. So what are you finding in terms of your own Work and creativity, how do you see that potentially changing? You know, what what what might business communication look like specifically in writing in the years to come?

Jennifer Coon [00:26:52]:

It’s a great question and one that I like thinking about with students all of the time, and thanks for the compliment about the student with the the email Because I think going back to that student and really saying to them, look, this might not be the right time and place to use chat b g t. Excuse me. Chat GPT or another generative AI. This instead it is. So I don’t think that avoiding any of these newer technologies, and we haven’t in the past. Right? Like, everyone knows how to use Google Docs or Grammarly or Wikipedia when, you know, they’re trying to get some background information. So so we shouldn’t be avoiding these, but when it comes to this business communications, students should really know when and where to pull out their ace. And I’m really interested in knowing how we shape communicators for the next generation, how students learned To be communicators in their particular field, they by the time our students are in the graduate program at the University of Michigan, they’re ready to Create scholarly work.

Jennifer Coon [00:27:56]:

And so how do they learn about that, especially with generative AI coming around? How do they learn about that Shaping that structure and about getting to that audience. But really, the my answer to that question is I’m convinced it’s a 100% storytelling. So this is great for you and me who both love podcasts and podcasting. I think that if you’re looking at Any response you’re giving to an audience, it’s really a story you’re telling. And so being able to create a narrative Quickly on the Spot is going to be really your best approach for winning over your audience. So we teach Students a 62nd story. Like, you’re caught in the elevator with someone really important and you wanna be working with them next semester. What do you say? Where is your little story? You’re presenting to a corporation about how they might improve their security for their data.

Jennifer Coon [00:28:48]:

What’s that little scenario look like? So I’m convinced, Bonnie, that any little avenue of communication that’s valuable to corporations, Organizations, nonprofits, I think has that narrative element to it. And it’s probably not something Business students thought they had to jump into, but I think now they really should. Like, you might have the numbers background. You might really have that great content knowledge, Hopefully, because that’s what we’re trying to promote. But tell us about it. What’s the story surrounding this? So I’m a 100% in on storytelling.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:29:22]:

Before Jennifer and I get to the recommendations segment, I wanted to take just a moment and thank today’s sponsor and that is TextExpander. TextExpander allows us to type less and say more. And in terms of that say more, Jennifer and I have been talking a lot about Though things that AI can do for us and the things that it can’t, and I feel very much that way about TextExpander where I can automate The things that really are worthy of automation to free up the space, both the mental space, but also save me the time where I can add in that authenticity and that personal touch. And how TextExpander works is you set up these snippets, and they’re very easy to set up. They’re also very easy to remember because you set them up, you type them, and then it extends what you’ve typed as in expands what you’ve typed to either a single line or an entire paragraph or in the case of the Teaching in Higher Ed show notes, an entire set of notes. In that case, I can customize it with the episode number, the name, who’s the guest, and then as those things repeat, They can be inserted in kind of like a magical mail merge, but for text expansion. And one of the things that might Be concerning some of you, at least, I know this is something that’s on my mind a lot is but wouldn’t it be hard to remember some of them? And so it’s a really easy keyboard shortcut cut to bring up a search box where you can type in all of them. So I have some really cool text expander snippets set up where I can go in and I’m reading a student something that they’ve written, and then I just copy it so it’s sitting in my clipboard.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:31:03]:

But instead of getting pasted, it gets pasted into my text expansion. So I’ll say things like you asked or you wrote or you quoted, And then it will insert what they wrote or asked or quoted into what I had to say, and then I just press enter Couple times and type in the things that I want to say. So it’s just one example of many, many. I’m using it all day, every day. It it really becomes just a fluency for me, And I don’t think about it. And when I set new ones up, yeah, I might not remember what the shortcut is, but I sure as heck remember the shortcut to bring up that search box. And then I my my fingers never even have to leave the keyboard, and it really just flows, so smoothly. So If you head over to text expander.com/podcast, you can redeem a 20% off and also take a free trial and try it out for yourself and see what you’re capable of.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:31:57]:

They have a wonderful community where we can kinda spark each other’s ideas. And some people have Started to write to me as well and tell me the ways that they’re using TextExpander, and I always love to hear from you for that as well. Thanks once again to TextExpander For sponsoring today’s episode, I hope you’ll check out more of what TextExpander has to offer by going to textexpander.com slash podcast. This is the time in the show where we each get to share our recommendations. And I have 2 of them that are related to the same topic, and that is personal knowledge mastery. I’ve had many episodes on that topic and also had the chance to interview 1 of the 2 people I’m about to recommend the resource for. So the first one is I wanted to recommend an article from A website that’s called the Suite Setup, which I just love that name of that website. And I’ll tell you in advance the Suite Setup as a whole is a little bit more geared toward those who use Apple Computers, Apple Devices.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:32:57]:

But please don’t not click on that link or not go check it out because There, you still will be able to get value out of this. So the title of it is PKM as in personal knowledge mastery primer, an introduction to personal knowledge management for creatives. I also still want you to click on this link in the recommendations Even if you don’t consider yourself creative, because what Jennifer just said about storytelling, I consider us all to be creative. So This is just a wonderful look at what is a personal knowledge management system and what are some of the key components of them And 3 levels of knowledge. So they talk about there’s level 1 where there’s having something, and that’s information. And a lot of our digital information falls in this category. And then they have level 2, understanding something where we start To have revelations and being able to recall something without even looking it up, and then finally level 3. And isn’t this really what It’s all about for us is doing something, application where you’re actually applying things.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:34:07]:

So they talk about the Struggles with FOMO as in the fear of missing out and how that plays a role in our ability to be effective in our personal knowledge management. So they talk about what’s called a commonplace book where we collect collections of notes and quotes and anecdotes. They talk about mind maps and they talk about things called sketch notes, why you should give some thought to your own PKM system, what makes a good one, what are some of the different components of it, and then the problems with filing cabinets. So filing cabinets have folders, and those of us that grew up with a mom who would put everything into manila folders, an article on a certain topic, you have the manila folder while it can’t also be in another manila folder at the same time? So the trend toward zettelkasten’s, which is the collection, the slip box, the collection of notes. So you can tell I could just keep going and going. It’s really, really a good article. And then related to that, Harold Jarky, who has been on the show before and is the he’s the 1st person I ever even heard what PKM was all about, He has an article that I’d love you to check out called crucial knowledge may be impossible to express. And so I’m gonna read from the top part of his article right now.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:35:30]:

He quotes John Naughton in The Guardian, and and again, quoting Harold Jarky, Quoting, John, not near. It’s the kind of knowledge that’s never written down, and yet can be Crucial even in the highest of high-tech enterprises, and you won’t find it in CHAT g p t either. So in many fields, there’s some kind of critical knowledge that’s really really hard to codify. And so they talk about In a network era, how can you have practices such as self directed learning where we’re narrating our work, where curating organizational knowledge are essential in ensuring that difficult To codify knowledge is able to flow between trusted nodes in a human network. And when Jennifer was sharing earlier, I found I thought oh my gosh. It’s like she saw my recommendations in advance because part of what Jennifer was describing in terms of becoming better communicators in organizations. To me, Jennifer, it’s the story all the way. And I also am thinking about the stories over time, And the and us becoming more equipped to do that through our self directed learning, our ability to narrate our work, which, yes, gets us telling good stories, and then curating organizational knowledge.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:36:55]:

But it’s the over time that we do that that I think is just a really fascinating thing to think about. So I did warn Jennifer in advance that my recommendations might be a little longer than usual because these are 2 very closely related topics That I just think we’re we really could do a lot of time making sure that as they start to feel so overwhelming for us, I I’m talking to so many people. OAI feels so big and I don’t know what to do, and I I just wanna avoid that stuff or the news feels so big or whatever it is It feels so big out there. A personal knowledge management system can just be so helpful and there are places to keep things. I don’t have to process Everything, but as I am curating, I am sharpening that and eventually can lead it toward the synthesis and reflection and ultimately, the action. So, Jennifer, now I get to pass it to you or whatever you’d like To recommend and feel free to comment if there was anything that came up

Jennifer Coon [00:37:53]:

in that. Yeah. Feel free. It it sounds amazing, Bonnie. I love the idea. The folders for me really hit home, so I need to look at it and figure out how to start my life’s folders, not just on some Google Drive, but life folders I think would be helpful.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:38:07]:

Yes.

Jennifer Coon [00:38:08]:

Thanks for the question. It took me a bit of thinking, but, I’d like to recommend to your listeners service learning. So no matter what I’ve taught over the past 25 years, I tried to weave in a service learning component for students. I think it’s incredibly rewarding for students as well as faculty when it comes to shaping a class that has I do happen to have a really great partner here in Michigan. I partner with humbledesign.org. They are in 5 cities. If anyone would love to check them out, they are in Seattle, Chicago, Cleveland, San Diego and then Detroit is the home base for us here. This kind of service learning, though, I think really opens the door to students Who wants some real world learning, it creates lifelong volunteers in them.

Jennifer Coon [00:38:55]:

And I think as you mentioned with the young student who’s just addicted to his Screen. It really is a chance for students to get, like, out of themselves and to experience What it feels like to do some good for someone else. In terms of the class and planning, it’s these are really skills to build upon. It might be difficult in to work into a course. However, it’s really rewarding, quote unquote, homework for students to do. There are websites that have amazing places for people to contribute. I often like zooniverse.com, which is Crowdsource scientific kind of research because we know students today obviously are busy and working and volunteering to have children and a full time job. But think about the kind of online volunteer work that you could do to sharpen skills for students.

Jennifer Coon [00:39:47]:

Often in the business school, we’re Trying to really round out resumes of 18 year olds, and students do have selective spots that could use some Pumping up. So quite often I send students to do work to sharpen those skills that are lacking or that would complement other things on their resume. So to faculty, finding a great partner is really key here, but I think this kind of real world learning just brings Goals to life for students, and I can’t recommend it enough.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:40:20]:

Oh my gosh. These are so inspiring. Thank you for for these recommendations and get us Thinking and I love what you said about the just the challenge because I I think back to when Sarah Rose Kavanaugh was on the show. And also she shares this in her book and in her speaking, but the idea of compassionate challenge. Yes. We need to have compassion. I know you’re sharing that story about your student who was ill recently. And I think part of it is you do have empathy for when people get sick, but you’re not done there.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:40:48]:

You also want to Challenge her to be thinking about her audience in future communication and how much you benefited her by not just showing compassion, but also challenging her to consider her audience differently in the future. That was really great. So what a joy it’s been to Get to know you a little bit through this process. Thank you so much for your generosity in coming on the podcast and and for being on today’s episode.

Jennifer Coon [00:41:12]:

Thank you so much, Bonnie. I appreciate the time.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:41:17]:

It was so great talking with Jennifer Coon today about how to know one’s audience in an AI world. Thanks to each of you for listening to today’s episode. Today’s episode was produced by me, Bonnie Stachowiak. It was edited by the ever talented Andrew Kroger. Podcast production support was provided by Sierra Smith. If you’ve been listening to Teaching in Higher Ed for a while and you’ve yet to sign up for that email list, head on over to teaching in higher eddot com/subscribe. Once a week, you’ll receive in your inbox an email with more than you get just in the show notes, which you’ll get the show notes with it, the most recent episodes, and you’ll also receive some quotable words, other recommendations that don’t show up on the episodes. Thanks so much for listening, and I’ll see you next time.

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