Bonni Stachowiak [00:00:00]:
Today on episode number 530 of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, lessons from the road, share your teaching stories with Dave Stachowiak.

Production Credit [00:00:13]:
Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:00:22]:
Welcome to this episode of Teaching in Higher Ed. I'm Bonni Stachowiak, and this is the space where we explore the art and science of being more effective at facilitating learning. We also share ways to improve our productivity approaches, so we can have more peace in our lives and be even more present for our students. Dave, welcome back, back, back, back to Teaching in Higher Ed. We really should have looked up how many times you've been on Teaching in Higher Ed. Todd Zakrajsek always wants to somehow he he let he wants to be on top, but he'll let you be you know, have more than he has. But other than that, he, like, he really likes to come back and have more conversations. So.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:08]:
I don't know how many times it is, but it's been a lot of times.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:01:12]:
It's been a lot of times, and I love it every time. Thank you for coming back. We're here today to share an invitation with listeners to be a part of a form of a road trip.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:22]:
Road trip.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:01:23]:
A caravan of sorts. And so be listening because we're gonna be sharing about that. But before we do, we have a little bit of some behind the scenes, and especially, you're gonna share with us a little bit about how your commute, how your road trips changed back in the day. Take us back to 2,005, and tell us a little bit about your commute back then and some things that changed.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:48]:
It turns out a Toyota Corolla can change your life, and I

Bonni Stachowiak [00:01:52]:
This episode is sponsored by Toyota.

Dave Stachowiak [00:01:55]:
No. It's not. It was new. It was. Only it was. Yeah. So back in 2005, I bought a Toyota Corolla, and I was at the time driving up to Los Angeles from Orange County, which is a huge long drive, multiple times a week. And I was on the road a ton, and I just discovered podcasts.

Dave Stachowiak [00:02:15]:
And at the time, this this was a while ago, you could only listen to podcasts by plugging in an ipod, thus the name where podcast came from, into your computer, syncing it with the podcasts that were available at the time, and then taking that iPad and using it if you're working out or anything. But I wanted to use it on the road because I was on the road 2, 3, 4 hours a day driving around between appointments in my early days at Carnegie. And, of course, no car supported this back then. So Bonni and I went down to or I did, I don't remember, to this place that's near our house of one of these audio places, you know, where they have people who bring in cars and they put in the giant stereo systems and the car is, like, bouncing. And they're high rolling with my Toyota Corolla and had a conversation with the guy there. Like, could we figure out a way to get a IPOD nano, that tiny little thing to fit in the front console of my Corolla in this little drawer that Toyota had carved out, I think, for sunglasses, and hook it into the system. And they figured out a way to run this cable out of the radio with this auxiliary cable to a 1 eighth inch audio adapter that snaked all the way through the glove compartment and inside of the console. And they drilled a hole into the console so I could put in my iPad Nano and listen to podcasts and audiobooks.

Dave Stachowiak [00:03:45]:
And for a number of years, that is how I listen to podcasts early on. And that is what got me motivated to actually start a podcast back in 2011. It was many years after that on leadership. And the reason I started is because I really fell in love with the medium. I couldn't find a show that was on the topic I wanted to listen to that was being aired regularly and had good audio quality and helpful guests. And I decided to start it, and it absolutely was a decision that changed my professional life and trajectory and has also influenced you, Bonni. Like, we wouldn't be here on this podcast if that hadn't happened either. So it's been, it's interesting how much comes back to a caravan and a road trip, because that's where it all started.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:04:31]:
Oh, it's so amazing. People often ask, you know, how did you start the podcast? And it comes back to really your urging of just seeing in me that I love to hear stories about teaching. And so today, we're gonna be extending an invitation to listeners from all over the world to be sharing some of yours your stories, but I did wanna mark the occasion. So back on June 24, 2014, the first episode of teaching in higher ed aired. And every single week, rain or shine, we have aired an episode of the podcast. And I so I told myself when I crossed over that threshold that I would do something to celebrate. I am not a person who does that very naturally or very often, but I thought that I mean, that is a decade of doing something that is worthy of taking a pause, and it and it somewhat took on took on a life of its own. And so we're gonna be introducing to you today an invitation to participate in the teaching in higher ed story caravan.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:05:40]:
But briefly, we do, we thought it might be helpful to share a little bit kind of of what's going on, what has been happening sort of behind the scenes.

Dave Stachowiak [00:05:50]:
A bunch has been happening behind the scenes because as you approach this 10 year anniversary just a month or 2 ago, you'd been thinking about what are ways that we could celebrate it. And I love where you landed because it wasn't just a you did air an episode on the 10 year anniversary that was about it. But more importantly oh, you didn't?

Bonni Stachowiak [00:06:08]:
No. That's the funny thing. Episode 500 was very close. That's what gets confusing. So we talked about it on episode 500. But yeah. Right. The so the actual official official.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:06:18]:
I was driving with the kids in the car, and Hannah asked, like, what was the date, the exact day that it aired? So I went back and looked, and it was July no. Sorry. June 24th 2014. But it does get confusing because you do the math on that and, you know, 500 was nearing the 10 years, but not not quite there. Yeah. So it sort of went past an unremarked upon because behind the scenes, we already had realized, let's not just do an episode. Let's really

Dave Stachowiak [00:06:50]:
Let's go on a road trip.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:06:51]:
Let's go on a road trip, a story caravan, and really to spend some time to invite people to share and to to share some of their own things that they've been learning about teacher. I just and I've been so excited. And we by the way, we do have an episode that kinda talks a little bit more about designing experiences that I'm so looking forward to sharing when it comes out, but this kinda like the big announcement, the big invitation. Yeah. So

Dave Stachowiak [00:07:14]:
Yeah. Cool. And so rather than just where originally, you were thinking like, hey. I'll just do an episode and have

Bonni Stachowiak [00:07:19]:
it started.

Dave Stachowiak [00:07:20]:
And and you've landed in a very different place, and it's great because it's it's a road trip. And like any good road trip, you don't go by yourself.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:07:28]:
No. You take a group with you.

Dave Stachowiak [00:07:29]:
You take the people that you wanna have. Someone brings the good snacks, and someone brings the batteries and someone downloads the good movies and someone's got the playlist going. And in our house, we got all those people. So when we go somewhere, we've got it all set up. And that's what we're doing is we're taking everyone along with and joining in on the caravan. And so, yeah, there's been a bunch happening behind the scenes just in the last few months.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:07:53]:
Yeah. And so much of the behind the scenes that I want to share is just my realizing how challenging it can be to ask others for help and how difficult it can be to put yourself out there in the open. And for me, you might think like, my gosh, she's been doing this for a decade. When is she gonna when will she start to sort of get over that stuff? And to me, it just kinda it feels like it's ever evolving. Dave, you had a opportunity to interview the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. Yeah. I have trouble with the plural, so you all see me pausing. Is it chief, chiefs?

Dave Stachowiak [00:08:29]:
Chairman of joint chiefs. Yep.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:08:30]:
The very esteemed, leader in our country. And so, I mean, that for you, I don't mean to speak for you, but that's a little nerve wracking to Oh, yeah. Prepare in a new way.

Dave Stachowiak [00:08:43]:
I don't I don't get emails from the Pentagon every day. So when they reached out, I was like, really? Did this go

Bonni Stachowiak [00:08:48]:
It's supposed to be someone punking me here. Yeah. So, anyway, it has really been putting on for me, just oh my gosh. It feels like stretching me because I don't know what I'm doing, and I've sort of been, like, working out loud is the expression that that's often used here. And I wanted to share, Bryan Mathers is someone who I have admired for such a long time. He is a visual thinker, and so he has, what he calls open visual thinkery. Some of you will have seen his work. He does these incredible sketchnotes of amazing keynotes and talks and does so much more than that.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:09:24]:
I can't even do it justice. But I found this post, and it was so perfect, Dave. So it it's a permission slip. We all are familiar with the permission slips, but this is a very unique permission slip. It says, and I quote, I am quoting from Bryan Mathers. I hereby give myself permission to draw things and not care what anyone thinks. And I'm reading from his words. He says, I was giving a public talk at a life sciences museum in Germany earlier this year, over a 100 people turned up to hear about my journey with visual thinkery.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:10:02]:
A picture says a 1,000 words. People were encouraged to bring pen and paper, and we had plenty on hand to give out just in case they had forgotten. In any audience I've had, some are comfortable with picking up a pen and having a go at drawing something, but most people are not. Maybe like me, they decided I can't draw at the age of 12 or 13, something to do with school or peers or siblings. Whatever the reason, that barrier remains exactly where we put it. Until one day we decide to do something about it, So I included this little exercise in every talk or workshop I give these days. I take people through the process of drawing a permission slip featuring a little self portrait cartoon. A professor and his partner came up to me after the talk at the museum, and he's quoting them now.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:11:00]:
When you got out the paper and pens, he told me he wasn't going to be able to do any drawing, but he decided to give it a go. And now he really wants to show you his drawings. So when it comes to drawing, embrace the child within and give yourself permission to create something. It's liberating. So as you said, Dave, I I wanna I'm so glad I gave myself permission. This has been super uncomfortable and I I have been hearing from so many people including you. I'm like, okay, we gotta get this, we gotta get it together. You don't say it quite like that, but like, we we need to be able to make some asks.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:11:36]:
Because a lot of times, the asks that you might be uncomfortable asking, actually people not only are willing to oblige, but actually are excited about the opportunity to contribute in ways I never could have imagined. And so behind the scenes, this has been incredibly hard. I don't exactly know what we're doing here, but we're doing it together, and it's been so fun to get connected to some old friends in some new ways, and then to be meeting some new people too that are helping to challenge and edify me in some really cool ways too. So here we go. I think this is the point where you celebrate me for my courage if I if I'm reading the show notes here correctly, and then we make the ask and the invitation to people. So I will pause now for a moment as you celebrate me for my incredible braveness and courage at being willing to put myself out there when I don't exactly know what it is that I'm doing.

Dave Stachowiak [00:12:30]:
Bonni, I celebrate your courage. Let's do this. And I as you were as you were saying that, I was thinking back to 20 years ago. I was looking for a job, and someone told me, there's a lot of people who want to help you. You need to teach them how. And I took that advice to heart, and I sent out an email to twin the 20 or 30 people I knew best in life at the time. This is before you and I met, and the and I had 1 or 2 clear asks. I said, here's the kind of work I think I'm looking for here.

Dave Stachowiak [00:13:03]:
And I don't even remember what the 2 asks were, But that email is what got me connected because a friend was taking a Dale Carnegie course, and that was the email that got me connected to Dale Carnegie and turned into a 15 year career that shaped my professional journey. So it's a reminder to me all the time of the importance of telling people how they can help. So we have 3 asks for you today on not only how you can help, but more importantly, how you can be a part of this and join in on the road trip and be part of this conversation of getting connected to others.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:13:36]:
Okay. Number 1, and most important, we invite you to join the story caravan. This is an amazing celebration, at least that's what we're planning, to be able to celebrate the 10th anniversary. We are partnering with the interactive experience platform, GooseChase, for a story caravan where educators worldwide will engage in an interactive scavenger hunt, sharing stories and celebrating teaching and learning. And you can find out more at a website which I've linked to in the show notes, but it's really easy to remember, teaching in higher ed.com/10 years, as in 10, 10 years. And that'll give you all the information that you need to download the GooseChase app, what the join code is. It's really easy to join. In fact, I don't think you know this yet, Dave.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:14:28]:
Our our son and I practiced today because I hadn't done that for a very long time. So we wanted to make sure that that join code was working and everything. What did it look like once you came in as a as test user up there. The Foxfam test user just to make sure that yeah. And and I should also say win prizes. So you get to you get opportunities to share your stories for a month. We're running from August 15th to September 18, 2024. Throughout that entire month, every week, we'll be giving out prizes, and it'll just culminate with this wonderful opportunity for you to be able to hear other people's stories.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:15:07]:
Some of them are gonna be rather lighthearted. I think we're gonna laugh together. I think we're gonna learn together, and I think it's gonna be amazing. And, yeah, I think there's gonna be some cool prizes too.

Dave Stachowiak [00:15:16]:
It's like a road trip when you are going down the road and all of a sudden you see off in the distance ice cream and candy store, like the one in the middle of the Mojave Desert whenever the kids sit. And I drive out that way, and you see that, and you're like, oh. We didn't know that was gonna be there. I mean, we know now, but the first time, and you go in, you're like, what are we gonna discover? Just like being on a road trip. Prizes, fun, sharing experiences together.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:15:40]:
And part of it is, I also don't know what we're gonna discover, which feels terrifying and exhilarating altogether. And I can't wait for us to do this together. So our second ask is to tell someone else about the Teaching in Higher Ed Story Caravan. Clearly, I don't know how to do it as well myself. So so I need your help. I need you to spread the word and just get people out there to be joining in this caravan, this and where unexpected things are gonna come up, and it's gonna just be amazing. We're it's gonna be amazing. So that's the second to ask.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:16:10]:
And then finally, and this is probably the one that I've had the hardest to time with, but I think every example I have so far, people want to do this. If you can think of something that you would like to give away to the teaching and higher ed audience or or you think you might know an organization that would like to do that, please reach out to us and let us know of an idea that you have for potentially donating a prize. So this started out Sarah Rose Cavanaugh. I was one of the earliest people who I reached out to. I had some of my longtime guests and friends. I had emailed them in advance to let them know about this experience. And I gotta tell you is I clearly confused them because out of my awkwardness of not wanting to ask for help. So they wanted to help, and so they're, like, kinda nudging me along.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:16:54]:
And I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. So you'll see some quotes from them on that 10 years website. Oh, I have to read Josh Eiler's because his oh my gosh. I could read all of them, but I'll just read his really quick because he, gosh. He just this really touched me. They all did, but I'm just gonna pick 1 because there is a sense at which I need you to go over to that page so you can see the rest of the stories for yourself. So Josh said Bonni's work on teaching in higher ed has done more to advance effective teaching and learning practices on college campuses than any other publicly available resource. It's a true gift to the field.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:17:31]:
So in some of those same exchanges, Sarah Rose Cavanagh came up with the idea that she would donate 5 copies of her book, mind over monsters, and 30 minutes of her time to run a q and a around a little mini book group or book club at your institution, or you wanna get a group of friends together. By the way, that book is about youth mental health, so it doesn't necessarily need to be read by people specifically in a higher education context. We all can benefit from learning about mental health use. So it's kind of fun. Like, maybe you're listening. You think, oh, maybe I know someone who organizes conferences, and maybe they might like to donate a free registration to a conference. Please connect me with those people. Or maybe you are an author, and you'd be willing to donate 5 copies of your book in 30 minutes of your time to do a mini book club.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:18:18]:
Todd saw that Sarah Rose Cavanaugh had done that, and he's like, I wanna play. You know? Could I could I donate a prize too? So if you have an idea I'm not saying everything may fit because you may have an idea of giving ice cream out to people, and I'm like, yeah. But somebody won who you know? That's gonna be a little hard to ship, the ice cream. So I I this is like an example of, like, I don't have this all figured out yet as far as distribution because we do have a worldwide audience. But if you think you might have an idea for a prize, please reach out. Let's see if we can figure this out and get you added to that prize listing that's on that 10 10 years page too.

Dave Stachowiak [00:18:54]:
You and I haven't even had a chance to talk about this because it's been a busy few days, and the kids and I were traveling last week. But I have a feeling there's gonna be a donation for me for the prizes there too from, from coaching for leaders. So

Bonni Stachowiak [00:19:06]:
Oh my gosh. That's amazing. I did not know that. This is real time real time news. But guess what? We already donated because I wanted there to be at least 4 prizes to say that it was done enough. We have this often in our division of teaching and learning. At my institution, we always talk about the minimally viable product. David Rhodes, this is for you, the MVP.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:19:25]:
So our minimally viable product for the 10 years page, we had to have 4 prizes. So we're donating a gift card from bookshop dotorg Oh, sweet. Which supports it. So look at that. You're given even more prizes than you realize. So there you go. Those are our 3 asks. And, Dave, why don't you just recap those for us one more time, and then we'll go to the recommendation segment.

Dave Stachowiak [00:19:44]:
So join the story caravan. Here's where you go. Teaching in higher ed.com/10 years. That's 1 0 years, and you could will find all the details you need there. Secondly, share the invitation with someone else. The more the merrier. The more folks we can take along on the trip and share stories, the better. And then, 3rd, if you're in a position where you have a resource or a connection to donate something that could be a prize, whatever feels right to you, please reach out and let us know.

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:15]:
And, Bonni, if you said this, I missed it. Do folks go to the same link, the 10 years link, or do they fill out the contact form on the website if they are wanting to donate a prize?

Bonni Stachowiak [00:20:25]:
They can go to that page or feel free to just reach out at feedback at teaching in higher med dot com. Yep. Either one.

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:31]:
There we go.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:20:32]:
And if Toyota is listening and wants to donate,

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:35]:
a A Toyota Corolla.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:20:37]:
Yeah. I mean, aim high.

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:40]:
We could go find that car from all these years ago.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:20:45]:
Or if Apple is listening and wants to donate, you know, today's version of an iPad, which, you know, would be like a their upcoming iPhone. You can

Dave Stachowiak [00:20:54]:
buy iPods anymore.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:20:55]:
I know. That's why I was saying that they gotta donate the next iPhone. What's I don't remember what the number's gonna be, but,

Dave Stachowiak [00:21:00]:
there you

Bonni Stachowiak [00:21:01]:
go. Apple, if you're listening. Toyota, if you're listening.

Dave Stachowiak [00:21:04]:
Aim what's the phrase? Better to shoot for the stars and miss than aim for the manure and hit. So because manure is a theme here.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:21:14]:
Yes. Manure is

Dave Stachowiak [00:21:15]:
teaching in higher ed.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:21:16]:
Hashtag deep cuts.

Dave Stachowiak [00:21:18]:
Deep cuts. Right there.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:21:19]:
I love it. So this is the time in the show where we each get to share our recommendations, and I wanted to begin with going back to Bryan Mathers's work. Remember, he is the, one behind the visual thinkery, and I wanted to share a post that he he has, and this is gonna be a little bit visual. You'll need to go look to click on the link to actually see the diagram, but I want you to picture somebody is flying a kite. You see the beautiful blue sky behind it, and the kite has all these colorful just like kites do. They have the colorful tails, so you see all these different colorful tails. But the kite looks like it it is almost like a newspapery kind of a look where you see some illusions to text and to images. And then there are 3 people off on the right hand side that are looking up at the kite and pointing.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:22:11]:
And Bryan writes open working. Surprisingly, the concept of working openly is new for some people. Maybe it's because we were told at school to cover our work. Don't let others peak. Or maybe it's the shame of failure dictates that we should only share perfect outcomes that progressed according to plan, which makes for a very boring story. I learned the most from the openness of others. Therefore, my work should be open. When I saw your words, Bryan, today, if you if you ever hear these words, I thought that's exactly what I needed to hear today.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:22:54]:
That's exactly what I needed to hear. And I just love this idea that this road trip I don't wanna overextend the metaphor, but you don't you don't always know where you're going. There aren't maps to some of these things that we're trying to wrestle through and figure out and that the road hasn't been traveled enough for it to be worn to show the direction. And so I'm just yeah. Alright. I've I've overused the metaphor. So I would I did not realize. I should have realized, but I didn't realize that Bryan has a newsletter.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:23:23]:
Dave, before you came downstairs to record, there's lots of back issues that I cannot wait to go dig into. So I encourage everyone to go over and subscribe to the visual thinker newsletter. And Bryan writes, the Visual Thinker is a sporadically issued digital publication of sorts, exploring all sorts of visual, What about a re? Honestly, that's the most clinical description I can muster. There are updates on the remixer machine, which is kind of his way of being able to add text to images. I'm oversimplifying here, but I I had heard of that before. Zines and interesting visual projects that are worth talking about. Dave, I if you hadn't come downstairs, I just would still be here 3 days from now going back to his old issues. It's really, really good.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:24:15]:
So I'd suggest that you subscribe to the visual thinker. And my final recommendation is to be like Bonnie Powers. Well, first of all, who is Bonnie Powers? Bonnie Powers is the academic technology support administrator at Antioch University. And I know Bonnie because she has written across many years now. She's very good about letting me know stuff I would really wanna know about. So if something's not working on the teaching in higher ed website, of course, I wanna know about that. And so she'll kinda give me the behind the scenes. And I've also connected her with one of my colleagues on, some of her ongoing work that she is doing in her own academic pursuits.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:24:55]:
And so she reached out to me and told me that she was listening to the episode that I did with Alexis where we looked at, towards this toward in the recommendation segment. I started talking about a card sorting game that I am still as of this recording, in the process of creating. I was so delighted by Bonnie Powers' email to me because she says she thanks me for the podcast, but she says that this idea of trying to create an AI activity to creatively engage your faculty and staff in learning more. For her, she says, it immediately brought to mind the idea of hexagonal thinking, where you create hexagon cards with words on them, and you can connect them to related ideas on the 6 sides or on some of the sides to diagram a relationship. A while back, I signed up to receive a hexagonal I can't say the word. I signed up to receive a hexagonal thinking toolkit and template from NowSpark Creativity. It can be used online in Google slides or printed out and used in person. I tried it myself for an activity during my master's program and found it very interesting, so I thought I would share it with you.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:26:13]:
And then she shares a few other resources, which I will also include in the show notes. There's a cult of pedagogy episode. There's 5 creative ways to use hexagonal thinking, free hexagonal thinking hexagonal thinking, was a word. That. This is by the way, today I just learned that there's a word. I knew there was a word called hexagon. I did not know there was a word hexagonal, but it it's not rolling off the tongue quite yet. But anyway, so big picture, be like Bonnie Powers, just listening and and sharing and and also being willing to be vulnerable herself.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:26:52]:
It it is just wonderful being in a relationship like that. And then I'm gonna put these links in case, anyone else listening is wanting to be a little bit more creative. These look amazing, these hexagon cards and just this idea of engaging with ideas in a unique way. It looks like a tremendous resource that I'm very much looking forward to checking out. Alright. So, Dave, I'm gonna pass it over to you for whatever you would like to recommend.

Dave Stachowiak [00:27:16]:
I read maybe a decade ago, a book called Just Mercy by Bryan Stevenson. And if you're not familiar with that book, it's it's just such it's a powerful recap of his work to, help support people who have been wrongfully incarcerated. And he is and I it's probably the most powerful nonfiction book I've read in the last decade. And so I've been sort of tangentially following his work. I think Anya, did you and I see him speak years ago?

Bonni Stachowiak [00:27:50]:
Oh, I know. I saw him speak, but I didn't think you were with me. I think I was alone. I think you've heard him on podcast.

Dave Stachowiak [00:27:55]:
Maybe. I I thought I had heard him speak too. But anyway so

Bonni Stachowiak [00:27:58]:
Oh, trust your memory over.

Dave Stachowiak [00:28:00]:
He's an incredible he's an incredible person in America that everyone should know about, and he, is has founded an organization called the Equal Justice Initiative. And one of their many beautiful projects is a series of legacy sites that they've established in Montgomery, Alabama. And our kids and I were going to a camp up in northern Alabama, and we went out a day early last week and made a special trip down to Montgomery to see the legacy sites. And in particular, they're all 3 of them are unbelievable and amazing. And the legacy museum I'll read just a snippet from the website. It says on the site of a cotton warehouse where enslaved black people were forced to labor in bondage. The legacy museum tells the story of slavery in America and its legacy through interactive media. First person narratives, world class art and data rich exhibits.

Dave Stachowiak [00:28:54]:
It is an, it is an unbelievable experience to go through this museum, and I don't think museum even captures it. It is it is it's interactive, and it tells stories. And one of the reasons I'm thinking about Bonni, not only that we were there last week, but just the power of story as we've talked about in this conversation. And one of the many exhibits in the museum is you sit down at a chair that is made to look like a, like you would sit, if you were visiting someone who is incarcerated. And I think we've all seen this either on in real life or on television where you sit down and you would pick up a phone and the person would be on the other side of the glass who was incarcerated and pick up the phone and you could have a conversation with them and they have recreated that inside the museum and you pick up the phone and there is a must be a 4 k display. I don't know. It looks like the person is sitting across from you. And they pick up the phone, and they tell you their story.

Dave Stachowiak [00:29:49]:
And it is very powerful because you don't just see the statistics on the wall, which, of course, they have, but you hear each person's story individually about their lived experience. And story is so powerful, and that museum just does a wonderful job of presenting the stories of of so many. And so if you ever find yourself in Montgomery, Alabama, or if you do like we did, if you're nearby and take a day to make a special trip down there, the legacy sites, all 3 of them are worth seeing, and I'm so grateful that, the kids and I got to see all 3 while we were there, and I highly recommend it.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:30:24]:
And if you haven't had a chance to read Justice, I know many universities use it as their common book for incoming 1st year students. And, if you haven't had a chance to read it, just as you said, they have such an incredible work. And, thank you for sharing that experience. I I loved getting to talk to our daughter about the experience. I you know, when they come home from a trip, I just pummel them with questions or whatever. So I didn't especially because I I knew intuitively that would have been a very heavy experience. And she said something about so I I think I just asked her a very light question, and and she said it was really something like it was really uncomfortable and hard, but it's so important for me to know that. We all need to know those stories.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:31:07]:
It's it's essential that we know those stories. And I thought

Dave Stachowiak [00:31:10]:
That is exactly what I hoped she would say.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:31:13]:
Yeah. Yep. Alright. Thanks everybody for listening to today's episode of Teaching in Higher Ed. Go check out teaching in higher ed.com/10 years. We wanna see you there. We want you to be part of that community.

Dave Stachowiak [00:31:27]:
Join the caravan. Join the road trip. We are ready for you. And, normally, we have an invitation here at the end of the episode to join Bonni's weekly 10 years. Again, 1 0 years. Join the caravan, share 10 years. Again, 1 0 years. Join the caravan, share it with someone else.

Dave Stachowiak [00:31:50]:
If you have the resources, the ability, connection to donate a prize, thank you in advance for thinking at least thinking of us or reaching out if you do have something, and we can't wait to be part of this with you.

Bonni Stachowiak [00:32:01]:
Today's episode was produced by me, Bonni Stachowiak. It was edited by the ever talented Andrew Kroeger. Podcast production support was provided by the amazing Sierra priest. Head over to teachinginhighered.com/10years and join the story caravan. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for being a part of this community, and we'll see you next time on Teaching in Higher Ed.